Cheap Chinese AIS Transponder

[testmonkey]

Looks like an interesting unit. Manufacturing an AIS transponder can be done using off-the-shelf chipsets like this http://www.cornestech.co.jp/images/uploads/file/products/pdf/ais.pdf. Maybe if you open the box you find that chip in there. Ever wondered how mobile phones are made and what is the role of the chipset?

 

[onesea]

Some gossip / info on the products I had chance to chat to a couple of Singaporean dealers who had dealt with these guys and also Samyong a Korean outfit that do similar.

Matsutech where ONWA before apparently and they have been bought by a Japanese Bloke. Specialize in copying Furuno was there comment.

Asking what reports they had with these units, one would not sell Samyong as they had caused to many problems.

Matsutech they would not say anything bad about meant for Indonesian market was there comment, neither had in stock or where selling the class B plotters. In fact both tried selling me an English brand!

They could offer me a Icom MA-500TR Class B AIS Transponder
http://www.seamarknunn.com/acatalog/icom-ma-500tr-class-b-ais-transponder-7871.html?gclid=CNDy3eTU8rsCFSgB4godjH4A4g#.Us9o1tKSy9U at around 340 pounds... Which is allot cheaper than the uk no warranty, sadly they had none in stock or I would of bought.

 

[Bi111ion]

Looks like an interesting unit. Manufacturing an AIS transponder can be done using off-the-shelf chipsets like this http://www.cornestech.co.jp/images/uploads/file/products/pdf/ais.pdf. Maybe if you open the box you find that chip in there. Ever wondered how mobile phones are made and what is the role of the chipset?

I see so this one is an ASIC that does almost the whole job. If I get the back off and have a look I will report what I find. I suspect as you say they have bought stuff of the peg and probably just used the reference design.

 

[Bi111ion]

They could offer me a Icom MA-500TR Class B AIS Transponder
http://www.seamarknunn.com/acatalog/icom-ma-500tr-class-b-ais-transponder-7871.html?gclid=CNDy3eTU8rsCFSgB4godjH4A4g#.Us9o1tKSy9U at around 340 pounds... Which is allot cheaper than the uk no warranty, sadly they had none in stock or I would of bought.

That looks like a good deal. One thing I notice that is different about the Icom compared with the Matsutec is the ICOM has 3 NMEA I/O ports whereas the Matsutec only has one. In particular with the Matsutec if you want to upload waypoinyts and tracks you have to do all of them in one go and to do that you have to configure its one port as RS232. Also on the Matutech I see no way to upgrade firmware.

 

[Plevier]

Some gossip / info on the products I had chance to chat to a couple of Singaporean dealers who had dealt with these guys and also Samyong a Korean outfit that do similar.

Matsutech where ONWA before apparently and they have been bought by a Japanese Bloke. Specialize in copying Furuno was there comment.

Asking what reports they had with these units, one would not sell Samyong as they had caused to many problems.

ONWA seems to be the brand name Huayang use for radar kit http://huayang-tech.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-202677075/Radar.html rather than a change of name.

Do you mean Samyung for the Korean company? Can't find any trace of Samyong. Samyung appears to be pretty substantial http://www.samyungenc.com/eng/company/sub01.html and represented in Singapore by a leading company http://www.jason.com.sg/index.html

Do you think the things you were told, presumably by competitors, were perhaps not quite impartial?

Coincidentally 2nd_apprentice has just put a link on the other thread, ONWA seems to be a separate company but must be linked in some way http://www.onwamarine.com/

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Specialize in copying Furuno was there comment.

So the reason they look like Furuno kit is that rather that their being Furuno suppliers, they copy them. I suspected this all along but didn't say so because someone would have jumped on me and said where's your evidence.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

I see so this one is an ASIC that does almost the whole job. ...

...along with the external components required to do the RF amplification, oscillator, power conditioning etc. These chips do the hard part, but not everything.

 

[Plevier]

So the reason they look like Furuno kit is that rather that their being Furuno suppliers, they copy them. I suspected this all along but didn't say so because someone would have jumped on me and said where's your evidence.

I really think there is no valid evidence either way at the moment.
You can't rely on knocking remarks from a competitor as evidence, and it certainly isn't unknown for a company with a known name to badge a product from elsewhere.
Also, how can these people copy a Furuno product that doesn't exist?
If Furuno do come out with a version that includes an AIS transmitter and looks the same I think that will clinch it in favour of the Chinese!

 

[AngusMcDoon]

I really think there is no valid evidence either way at the moment.
You can't rely on knocking remarks from a competitor as evidence, and it certainly isn't unknown for a company with a known name to badge a product from elsewhere.
Also, how can these people copy a Furuno product that doesn't exist?

I'm getting confused between threads here, but this is what I meant...

http://www.waveinn.com/nautical-fis...5&country=uk&gclid=CPiU-aG-87sCFQcTwwod3SoAuA

and

http://www.onwamarine.com/kp-32/

I doubt Furuno have sanctioned that.

If Furuno do come out with a version that includes an AIS transmitter and looks the same I think that will clinch it in favour of the Chinese!

I'm afraid nothing clinched. It's also not unknown for knock-offs to appear before the official model. I have worked in electronics manufacturing all my career and it is somewhat disheartening when this happens, but it is a risk that a manufacturer takes when they close their factories and sub-contract out their manufacturing to somewhere cheaper. (I was working for Sony Ericsson on a Symbian phone, and a knock off appeared before the release of the genuine item).

 

[onesea]

Troubadour yes I meant Samyung. I was saying what I heard, the dealers did not have what I wanted in stock. They where your usual Asian rouges so had there own agendas on the products to sell (no different to UK ones but more honest about it ).

Bi111ion part of the reason I guess for more I/O ports on Icom is that it does not have its own GPS.

 

[Plevier]

http://www.onwamarine.com/kp-32/

I doubt Furuno have sanctioned that.

If Furuno are badging someone else's product, it depends on whether their agreement is for exclusive distribution rights. if not it doesn't need their sanction.

Example that comes to mind on a smaller scale, Pony Electric Corporation, they make VHF radios you can buy under their own proprietary brand name M-Tech, or you can (or used to be able to) buy them badged NASA and various other names. None had exclusivity.

It's possible that the kp-32 or whatever is a genuine Huayang product available under their own Matsutech and ONWA brands, or at a premium with a Furuno name on and their support network behind it, and BiIIIions AIS unit is a Huayang product that Furuno have chosen not to adopt.

 

[Rivers & creeks]

If Furuno are badging someone else's product, it depends on whether their agreement is for exclusive distribution rights. if not it doesn't need their sanction.

Example that comes to mind on a smaller scale, Pony Electric Corporation, they make VHF radios you can buy under their own proprietary brand name M-Tech, or you can (or used to be able to) buy them badged NASA and various other names. None had exclusivity.

It's possible that the kp-32 or whatever is a genuine Huayang product available under their own Matsutech and ONWA brands, or at a premium with a Furuno name on and their support network behind it, and BiIIIions AIS unit is a Huayang product that Furuno have chosen not to adopt.

That makes a lot of sense

 

[JumbleDuck]

It's possible that the kp-32 or whatever is a genuine Huayang product available under their own Matsutech and ONWA brands, or at a premium with a Furuno name on and their support network behind it, and BiIIIions AIS unit is a Huayang product that Furuno have chosen not to adopt.

Sometime the same hardware is available with different firmware from different suppliers, so Furuno might buy the base units but spec (and support) the functionality themselves.

 

[BruceDanforth]

You should get yourselves one of those Chinese Rolex watches while you are at it. Just the same, innit?

 

[Bi111ion]

So the reason they look like Furuno kit is that rather that their being Furuno suppliers, they copy them. I suspected this all along but didn't say so because someone would have jumped on me and said where's your evidence.

It is interesting how similar the brochures are for the HP33 and the Furuno GP33, it looked to me like they were not trying to make them look different. But here is the thing if Matsutech are copying Furuno, how come they brought out the HP33A (the AIS transceiver) before Furuno have a similar product? Seems odd to me. That is why I suspect they are just different badges for the same product with slightly different firmware.

 

[JumbleDuck]

You should get yourselves one of those Chinese Rolex watches while you are at it. Just the same, innit?

That's nothing. I passed a shop the other day selling Chinese made iPads, bold as brass, in broad daylight, when everybody knows that Chinese people can't possibly make stuff to a high standard. Now, what was the shop called?

Oh yes, I remember. "Apple".

 

[Rivers & creeks]

That's nothing. I passed a shop the other day selling Chinese made iPads, bold as brass, in broad daylight, when everybody knows that Chinese people can't possibly make stuff to a high standard. Now, what was the shop called?

Oh yes, I remember. "Apple".

I just checked - my iPad is made in China as well! I'm going to sell it and get a real American made one.

 

[nigelmercier]

I just checked - my iPad is made in China as well! I'm going to sell it and get a real American made one.

The American ones are 2.54 times as big in each dimension.

 

[Bi111ion]

You should get yourselves one of those Chinese Rolex watches while you are at it. Just the same, innit?

I was thinking of Fuji compact digital cameras that are identical to Leica cameras except for the firmware but half the price. In this case they really only differ by badge engineering. Like in the old days of **** British made cars paying extra for a Woolsey and thinking you were better than Austin owners.

 

[BruceDanforth]

You don't seem to be able to distinguish between designing something and assembling something so I'll stop bothering to converse with you.

That's nothing. I passed a shop the other day selling Chinese made iPads, bold as brass, in broad daylight, when everybody knows that Chinese people can't possibly make stuff to a high standard. Now, what was the shop called?

Oh yes, I remember. "Apple".