CAPTAIN FANTASTIC
Well-Known Member
I will be considering buying one of these if I knew it will work in the UK; I can not see why not. Please give us a feedback when you install it and test it; I am sure a few others will be interested too.
Cheap Chinese AIS Transponder
- Thread starter Bi111ion
- Start date
superheat6k
Well-Known Member
If you do please don't switch it on in the Solent unless its foggy. Number one eyeball can still see you.
AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
Because it's illegal to use it here and could harm others and could get you prosecuted and the £250 cost is not a trivial amount to spend on an unknown unsupported device that may not work from a manufacturer against which you have no comeback.
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GHA
Well-Known Member
Could a cost of certification maybe be why there aren't many more low cost transponders on the market?
Bi111ion
Well-Known Member
The SOTDMA protocol that AIS uses was patented, so presumably every unit needed to pay a license fee. However in 2010 the US patent office struck out most of the claims. I suspect that the EU patent still holds so that would inflate the price here.
BruceDanforth
Well-Known Member
How do you know it is performing to spec? How do you know it isn't going to switch to sart mode and go ape **** when you least expect it? Any evidence of any testing in adverse rf etc? sounds pretty dodgy to me.
johnphilip
Well-Known Member
Totally with you on this. You have touched on my favourite hobby-horse. In fog, at night or crossing a shipping lane, otherwise OFF
Bi111ion
Well-Known Member
I think this is sensible advice for Solent sailors. I imagine AIS displays become useless when crowded with Class B targets. Presumably your Radar display looks like that too? I haven't sailed in the Solent with an AIS receiver but in the Irish Sea we get excited when anything pops up on the AIS display and even around the busier shipping areas we only have a handful of targets.
BrianH
Well-Known Member
For eight years I've been using a Taiwan sourced AIS/GPS receiver and it has worked perfectly - except it had been programmed before the Class B protocol was defined and couldn't decode the static data for those targets, although they did generate CPA alarms constantly, damn them. Otherwise it was well made and performed faultlessly since installation; it cost only $100 all those years ago when locally available models were extremely expensive. The problem was, there was no European distributor and no support, so a firmware change was not an option as the manufacturer did not answer my queries about that.
With that in mind I have just bought, but not yet fitted on board, a Taiwan manufactured AIS transponder*, also quite inexpensive, but this time from a very reputable on-line supplier, Milltech Marine, who have proved to be unstintingly helpful in their sales support. There are plenty of recommendations for this company on the Cruisers Forum, where their support has been lauded.
I have tested the unit at home, connected to an Asus Zenbook running OpenCPN and monitored the output sentences with an AIS parser. With an improvised VHF antenna the output is reported to not quite be reaching its specified 2W, which I put down to incorrect impedence matching, but all the correct sentences are there and precisely placing me at home in the middle of Switzerland. OCPN has a slight problem with that as with no relevant chart it resorts to the world map for my ship's icon. However, the coordinates in the !AIVDO sentences, derived from the integrated GPS receiver, are correct to a couple of meters.
I am sure the Matsutec products are excellent but the lack of world-wide distributorships and support would give me pause after my experience with the AIS receiver. It is fine to pick up a cheap product when travelling but with courier shipping costs to Europe and paying taxes and handling on arrival, it no longer looks so attractive.
* http://www.milltechmarine.com/AMEC-CAMINO-101-Class-B-AIS-Transponder_p_214.html
With that in mind I have just bought, but not yet fitted on board, a Taiwan manufactured AIS transponder*, also quite inexpensive, but this time from a very reputable on-line supplier, Milltech Marine, who have proved to be unstintingly helpful in their sales support. There are plenty of recommendations for this company on the Cruisers Forum, where their support has been lauded.
I have tested the unit at home, connected to an Asus Zenbook running OpenCPN and monitored the output sentences with an AIS parser. With an improvised VHF antenna the output is reported to not quite be reaching its specified 2W, which I put down to incorrect impedence matching, but all the correct sentences are there and precisely placing me at home in the middle of Switzerland. OCPN has a slight problem with that as with no relevant chart it resorts to the world map for my ship's icon. However, the coordinates in the !AIVDO sentences, derived from the integrated GPS receiver, are correct to a couple of meters.
I am sure the Matsutec products are excellent but the lack of world-wide distributorships and support would give me pause after my experience with the AIS receiver. It is fine to pick up a cheap product when travelling but with courier shipping costs to Europe and paying taxes and handling on arrival, it no longer looks so attractive.
* http://www.milltechmarine.com/AMEC-CAMINO-101-Class-B-AIS-Transponder_p_214.html
AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
From its manual...
which is the one you need for radio transmitting equipment to be compliant with EU directives to allow it to be put on the market and used within the EU...
http://www.obelis.net/directives/rt...ecommunications-terminal-equipment-directive/
But the device is £100 more than the unknown Chinese one.
BrianH
Well-Known Member
But the AMEC was an "unknown" Taiwanese one before Milltech Marine started supplying it
I am prepared to pay more - but not the prices of most of the others on the market - when a reputable company sells it to me. I then have someone to fall back on if it doesn't work or comply with regulations.
AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
When I say unknown I don't mean the name of the manufacturer, I mean the design and testing standards. At least your one gives some clue on that aspect.
nigelmercier
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I hate to disagree with "Angus" but it is likely that such a bit of kit will eventually be badge engineered into another product, and CE approvals applied for. OEMs rarely do this themselves, for economic reasons. There are a bunch of approvals on the details page of the unit, but haven't checked them.
superheat6k
Well-Known Member
The plotter screen looks like a game of Trivial Pursuits with too many players, and worse there is no differentiation between Class A & B markers. Bear in mind also that whilst interrogating the various markers to find the important ones you still have to be keeping a visual lookout, especially from the helm of a Mobo at 15-16 knots, and whilst also trying to give the raggies a decent clearance.
AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
I agree that if it is any good it will be, but until then, it's an unknown, and consequently a risk. As I said above, if there's any bit of kit that by malfuctioning will annoy the authorities and let them know who is transgressing, it is an AIS transponder.
Sans Bateau
Well-Known Member
CE means Chinese Export doesnt it?
AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
CE means Chinese Export doesnt it?
There are 2 CE marks which are virtually indistinguishable - the proper 'Conformité European' one, and as you say, the Chinese Export one. The Chinese Export one means nothing and is basically a forgery of the proper one. It is used by unscrupulous manufacturers and importers to get round proper CE accreditation. I think this says a lot about Chinese business ethics.
Here's another example of what they get up to...
Non compliant AIS transponder? You might as well just ring Ofcom and tell them what you are up to instead of transmitting your name and location and making them leave their desk and come and find you.
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Alpha22
Well-Known Member
Whilst we are at it, why not buy a nice cheap VHF... http://www.amazon.co.uk/Two-Way-Pro...8&qid=1388583273&sr=8-7-spell&keywords=bofeng
£30 or less off eBay.
Easily usable on the marine channels, but as the Chinese AIS, totally illegal, unproved and potentially dangerous.
£30 or less off eBay.
Easily usable on the marine channels, but as the Chinese AIS, totally illegal, unproved and potentially dangerous.
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GHA
Well-Known Member
Funnily enough I've just this moment sorted out the charger on one of those to work off 12v on the boat. Not a great example, those little radios are highly regarded in ham radio circles as a quality unit for a very cheap price so not a great example of unproved. Still illegal for marine Vhf of course but that's not what they're designed for, even if it would work fine.
http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/10349
ianj99
Well-Known Member
Just because something originating from the Far East claims to have the relevant approvals and testing certificates doesn't mean it actually has....
