Chartering - should most experienced person always be skipper?

Re: Legal necessity

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As Lamartine said, during the 1848 Revolution: "Je suis leur chef, il faut que je les suives!" (for the linguistically challenged: "I am their leader, I must follow them!")

[/ QUOTE ]

He didn't last long though!
 
Re: Legal necessity

Sounds reasonable ... skipper is in bed ... carry on sailing!

What I'm trying to get across is that in a leisure boat with close friends/family sailing a "skipper" is not always needed. Especially if you have a crew that is used to working with each other.
I have been sailing with SWMBO for over 18 years - neither of us are "in charge"
and when sailing with my dad neither of us is "skipper"

heck - when racing with either of them we just tack without saying a word - it all becomes second nature.
 
Re: Legal necessity

An intriguing similarity from the same era, but with a twist.

Ledru-Rollin (left wing politician, and a lawyer, to boot) : « Je dois les suivre parce que je suis leur chef ! »

Plus ca change... ?
 
We chartered a boat in Croatia a few years ago. Pretty sure I (as skipper) had to fill out some kind of registration form for the local authority.

TCM nails the issue - the buck stops with the skipper and his word is final.
 
\"how else do less experienced gain knowledge?\"

by going on courses or otherwise getting training and/or chartering their own boat and so on until they at least of comparable skill and knowledge as Bill.

NOT imho by compromising safety of otherwise proven crew because either they fancied being in charge or buggins' turn - when as per original post Bill is clearly the most suitable as skipper.

Killing Bill would be a valid though less acceptable route to being skipper amongst that group of people.
 
Re: \"how else do less experienced gain knowledge?\"

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NOT imho by compromising safety of otherwise proven crew because either they fancied being in charge or buggins' turn

[/ QUOTE ] .... so Bill is ALWAYS right?

Surely everyone makes mistakes ... even "Skipper" ... so as long as any mistake is picked up by another member of the crew then it doesn't matter ... safety is everyones responsibility - the buck stops with YOU!

Going back to the original post - I see no reason for anyone on the charter not to take over as Skipper - as long as the crew members are aware of the limitations of the "skipper" ...

I suppose there is a significant difference when sailing in familar waters when you don't tend to do the formal navigation as everyone on board is quite happy with the hazards ...
 
The skipper is the one who is prosecuted when it goes wrong. If not appointed then the courts will deem someone to be the skipper and crucify them.

An american frigate captain asked his crew to vote on where they would go for their liberty. He was replaced at sea by his 2 i/c within hours.
 
30' doesn't make a frigate! Why should a 30' leisure boat be dealt with in the same way as a naval frigate or a commercial vessel with fare paying passengers?
 
Re: \"how else do less experienced gain knowledge?\"

No.

Bill (or any skipper) isn't always right, but he's always ultimately responsible.

If the skipper is even remotely suited to the position of skipper, he will listen to any and all advice. If he's chosen his crew well then he may be invariably be agreeing with the advice of crew, inmuh tha same way as imagine Tome almost invariably doesn't step in.

Note that amongst the crew there may well be better helmspeople, mastclimbers, sailtrimmers, cooks, navigators and so on. Some of them might be better at waking up early in the morning too, but none of this makes them skipper.
 
Re: \"how else do less experienced gain knowledge?\"

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Bill (or any skipper) isn't always right, but he's always ultimately responsible.

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And we wonder why the legal profession are doing such a rip roaring trade in suing everyone ....

It seems that the only argument for having a "formal Skipper" is to have someone that is responsible in case of an accident/mishap ... oh - and signing the forms for a chartered boat ...

It's a shame no-one else seems to be able to be Jointly responsible for the safe passage of the vessel when there are sufficiently experienced people on board.

As for ending up in court .... it is highly unlikely
 
Re: \"how else do less experienced gain knowledge?\"

[ QUOTE ]
It seems that the only argument for having a "formal Skipper" is to have someone that is responsible in case of an accident/mishap ... oh - and signing the forms for a chartered boat ...


[/ QUOTE ]

I really disagree. If you don't know who the skipper is then at the time you really need one, i'e when the [--word removed--] really hits the fan, a difference in opinion could endanger the boat and everyone on it.

Simple fact is, if you're not the one who would take charge in the event of a man overboard or dismasting etc then you may be the the one paying the bills, the navigator, the helmsman or the best at mooring the boat but you're not the skipper. So if in the original situation everyone would look to Bill in an emergency then I for one would call him the skipper.
 
Re: \"how else do less experienced gain knowledge?\"

yes, i agree.

I expect it must work for a 30footer with couple on board so praps not an issue for them...

But... i would be somewhat unerved at being on a boat where it's all democratic and nobody is skipper. Every suggestion or bit of advice might have to be inroduced with a "i hope you don't me saying and you've probably all already thought about it but i wonder, do youthink perhaps we ought to ..." whereas if there's a skipper you can say "do you want to reef?" or whatever, and the skipper says "yes" or "no", and that's that, easy.
 
Re: \"how else do less experienced gain knowledge?\"

And if Bill is the one overboard? Who is skipper then? What if Bill is just ill and unable to get out of his bunk?

I think it is probably our sailing that has developed a non-skipper boat ....

If SWMBO falls overboard then I'm skipper - if I fall overboard (more likely as I'm the deck monkey!) then SWMBO is skipper....

Perhaps you lot should get out sailing with the same team more often ... perhaps it is the racing background or perhaps we're just telepathic ...
 
Re: \"how else do less experienced gain knowledge?\"

I do an awful lot of sailing 2 up with my dad. And so I do recognise your situation of being almost telapathic.

But answer this. When you disagree on anything - destination, shall we/shan't we, which side to etc who normally gets their way?
 
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