Chartering in the Med vs Owning?

I have had a similar thought last night.. I am out in Cyprus at the moment and went on one of the "sunset cruises" last night.. It was great and got me thinking there is certainly a good argument for chartering for a "boating holiday" but keeping my boat in the UK for general use.. Just need to find out what the requirements are to charter a boat.. :)
 
Trouble is that chartering a mobo involves eye watering costs. We considered it previously but chartered a yacht instead, which was great fun (but then we sail as well when we can) :)
 
I'm not so sure its as expensive as owning a boat in the med yourself. Yes if you go to the Balearics (baldricks) then you pay top money. Go out to croatia turkey etc and its a lot cheaper. I recently worked out what I had spent on my med based boat over the last 5 years and how many days use I got for that amount of money. (If you ever do this take a brave pill first) The upside of owning is you can use it whenever you want. The downside is that it doesn't get used enough and the bottom gets fouled and things can go wrong which you don't know about until you arrive, and then have to sort out. The upside of renting is that the boats get quite a lot of use through the season with a clean bottom and should be 100% when you pick the boat up. The downside is it's not yours, you can't fettle with it and you have to take all your stuff home again at the end.
 
kashurst said:
I'm not so sure its as expensive as owning a boat in the med yourself. Yes if you go to the Balearics (baldricks) then you pay top money. Go out to croatia turkey etc and its a lot cheaper. I recently worked out what I had spent on my med based boat over the last 5 years and how many days use I got for that amount of money. (If you ever do this take a brave pill first) The upside of owning is you can use it whenever you want. The downside is that it doesn't get used enough and the bottom gets fouled and things can go wrong which you don't know about until you arrive, and then have to sort out. The upside of renting is that the boats get quite a lot of use through the season with a clean bottom and should be 100% when you pick the boat up. The downside is it's not yours, you can't fettle with it and you have to take all your stuff home again at the end.
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I agree with Kashurst, there is no perfect answer to this question and depends more on your state of mind towards cost and value and therefore is a completely personal choice. We have a villa in the South of France and until recently a day boat in the UK. It is great having your own boat and knowing it is properly kitted out and ready to go, but you have to be on top of the maintenance and cleaning which if you lead busy lives can become a pain. We have rented several times in the South of France and because we don't need accommodation are able to charter boats sub 30ft with no insistence of a supplied skipper (ICC though is a must).

We have decided to follow this route for the next few years (due to work and time committments) and then we will firstly buy a berth then start looking for a boat/boat share. The lovely bit about chartering is simply handing the keys back at the end of the day. The downer is, they are never quite as clean as they should be and there always seems to be stacks of things not working that should. The choice is often limited to a strange range or gaggle of boats depending upon which marina you frequent. On the other hand there are some very good charter operators who will supply skipper and stewardess and you can chose your food and wine and just relax, but that comes at the 5 figures end of the charter rates.

EME of this parish coined a great phrase, 'Credit Card boating'. You pick a boat big enough to get you to the next port of choice and then you pay to stay in a hotel for the night (with the Credit Card of course) and you don't have to worry too much about the size or accommodation provided by the boat. I did the quick calc of the cost/usage mentioned above, we hadn't used our boat much in the last two years since we moved away from the marina in which it was based. I came up with a figure of £5k per hour of usage average for the last 2.5years. That rate can easily be achieved for a 50ft plus boat but this was for a single engined 26ft day boat. You can charter one for a week or more at that rate.

The nice bit about chartering in the med is that if the weather is good you can chose to go, not so good, don't bother. You are more likely to get many more good weather days per hour per £ chartering than owning.

If your med boat is your only accommodation then you are likely to be on it when the weather is less than perfect and feel that you have to go out to get some private space away from the other med moored boats.
 
If your time is limited through work and you can time your boat holidays outside the August peak season I'm convinced it would cheaper to charter rather than own a boat despite the apparently high charter fees. The trouble with all of we boat owners is that we delude ourselves with man maths and we don't take account of the large depreciation that our boats cost us. For example when I add up the costs of berthing, insuring, maintaining and fuelling my boat in the Med, I come to an annual cost of about £30k. On the face of it £30k would just about buy 2 weeks charter of a boat of my size but what I conveniently forget is that my boat is a depreciating asset and is silently costing me say another £50k per year in depreciation. £80k buys quite a lot of charter particularly if you haggle a bit and you charter away from the hotspots and you don't suffer all the hassle of ownership either. So unless you can find that magic boat that never depreciates (please tell me about it if you find it) IMHO charter is usually going to be cheaper
 
Deleted User said:
If your time is limited through work and you can time your boat holidays outside the August peak season I'm convinced it would cheaper to charter rather than own a boat despite the apparently high charter fees. The trouble with all of we boat owners is that we delude ourselves with man maths and we don't take account of the large depreciation that our boats cost us. For example when I add up the costs of berthing, insuring, maintaining and fuelling my boat in the Med, I come to an annual cost of about £30k. On the face of it £30k would just about buy 2 weeks charter of a boat of my size but what I conveniently forget is that my boat is a depreciating asset and is silently costing me say another £50k per year in depreciation. £80k buys quite a lot of charter particularly if you haggle a bit and you charter away from the hotspots and you don't suffer all the hassle of ownership either. So unless you can find that magic boat that never depreciates (please tell me about it if you find it) IMHO charter is usually going to be cheaper
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All agreed, but - if we're only going through once - there's a certain pleasure to be had from owning something as lovely as a boat.
 
benjenbav said:
All agreed, but - if we're only going through once - there's a certain pleasure to be had from owning something as lovely as a boat.
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I certainly had the 'feel good' factor whenever I saw my boat and loved being on it and using it, but I don't miss the costs and the general hassle that went with owning it. My financial circumstances have changed quite a lot in positive ways since leaving boat ownership. I am starting to think about ramping down work in a few years at which point I would have more free time and boating isn't a bad hobby.

I am also sick of the UK weather and want to spend more time in the Alps and since the Med is only about a 4.5 hour drive from Geneva I am starting to think about my options for boating from there. Getting a boat on the lake near Geneva is a 'nightmare' and much though I love it from a location perspective boating would be pretty restrictive and get a little boring after say a year or so, and it sounds as though the Med could be a valid option.

A small boat similar to the one I had before would be ok for a day or so out and a bigger boat say around 42' with air con would be best for the odd week on a boat. Chartering would make the most financial sense but not deliver the 'feel good' factor and owning would mean getting a permanent berth somewhere and finding a nice boat to berth on it. As people tell me at work that would be a nice problem to have :encouragement:
 
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I have owned a couple of motorboats in the UK for 16 years. I spent an average of 5 full weeks per year onboard in a variety of day trips and extended cruises ( up to 3 weeks on holiday). My last boat was 42'. . The annual cost before depreciation was around £22k inclusive of everything. The average depreciation over my ownership was £18k. So £40k pa all in.
The last 2 years I have chartered a 53' sportscruiser (2009 model) in Greece for around £10k per week all in ( no depreciation).
So I could charter a larger boat for 4 weeks for the same annual cost as owning a 10' smaller and 6 year older boat. Obviously no maintenance issues or worries.
As it happens I chartered for only 2.5 weeks this year so am actually quids in but down on boat time.
The big question is how much time do you want to or can afford to take off work to pursue the boating dream?
Over to you .
 
benjenbav said:
All agreed, but - if we're only going through once - there's a certain pleasure to be had from owning something as lovely as a boat.
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Its a good thing you weren't sitting next to me saying those words a few days ago as I was lurching around in a sloppy sea off the SW coast of Sardinia with a boat crammed with guests and wondering why we were going around in circles and when I turned the steering wheel, nothing happened. And that 'certain pleasure' extended to wading around a bilge full of hydraulic oil whilst sweating buckets trying to find out what happened.:disgust:

PS With grateful thanks to Mapism of this parish for his help and Marine Sifredi in Carloforte and Sacirn in S Antioco for their assistance in tracing the problem to a failed hydraulic hose and fixing it on a Saturday morning in August in Italy (which is a modern day miracle):D
 
Deleted User said:
And that 'certain pleasure' extended to wading around a bilge full of hydraulic oil whilst sweating buckets trying to find out what happened.:disgust:
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The benefits of chartering became ever more apparent to me as I sat on the quay vacuuming black soot from my air filters a month ago:

1. When you include depreciation and factor in one-off repairs it will nearly always be cheaper, unless you spend serious time on the boat
2. If the boat stops working, you stop paying
3. There's no risk of a big one off repair cost, or an uninsured loss, so it's a known cost
4. When something breaks, you tell the captain or owner, then check in to the luxury hotel down the road with infinity pool and mojitos to die for, paid for by 2. above
5. You can choose a different cruising grounds each year without paying for the fuel to get there or waiting for a weather window to make the trip
6. You can change "your" boat every year (or every week) without brokers fees, rampant depreciation or the hassle of changing
7. You can do multi centre holidays, maybe a week in Florida with a nice villa and a Boston Whaler 320 and twin 300 Mercs at the end of the garden, then a week sailing round the Greek Islands on a 50 foot sailing yacht, then a week with friends in Croatia on a 65' motor yacht with stewardess. All this for less than the cost of keeping a 50' mobo in the Solent.
8. You don't have to deal with shoddy/unreliable/dishonest contractors to repair and maintain your boat (especially an issue in SoF)
9. You can invest the capital, and in a good year the return may pay for your chartering

I think it all comes down to a). how much you want to own a boat rather than just use one, and b.) how much you like tinkering and fixing stuff yourself (although this is harder anyway if you keep the boat abroad). If neither of these are important to you, then chartering will be better in most cases I think.
 
Nick_H said:
The benefits of chartering became ever more apparent to me as I sat on the quay vacuuming black soot from my air filters a month ago:

1. When you include depreciation and factor in one-off repairs it will nearly always be cheaper, unless you spend serious time on the boat
2. If the boat stops working, you stop paying
3. There's no risk of a big one off repair cost, or an uninsured loss, so it's a known cost
4. When something breaks, you tell the captain or owner, then check in to the luxury hotel down the road with infinity pool and mojitos to die for, paid for by 2. above
5. You can choose a different cruising grounds each year without paying for the fuel to get there or waiting for a weather window to make the trip
6. You can change "your" boat every year (or every week) without brokers fees, rampant depreciation or the hassle of changing
7. You can do multi centre holidays, maybe a week in Florida with a nice villa and a Boston Whaler 320 and twin 300 Mercs at the end of the garden, then a week sailing round the Greek Islands on a 50 foot sailing yacht, then a week with friends in Croatia on a 65' motor yacht with stewardess. All this for less than the cost of keeping a 50' mobo in the Solent.
8. You don't have to deal with shoddy/unreliable/dishonest contractors to repair and maintain your boat (especially an issue in SoF)
9. You can invest the capital, and in a good year the return may pay for your chartering

I think it all comes down to a). how much you want to own a boat rather than just use one, and b.) how much you like tinkering and fixing stuff yourself (although this is harder anyway if you keep the boat abroad). If neither of these are important to you, then chartering will be better in most cases I think.
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Great list from NickH. I cannot show this to the SWMBO or I will never be able to own a boat again.
 
Good analysis, NickH. I think that well known proverb sums up this thread very well.

If it flies, f***s or floats, rent it:)
 
Nick_H said:
The benefits of chartering became ever more apparent to me as I sat on the quay vacuuming black soot from my air filters a month ago:

1. When you include depreciation and factor in one-off repairs it will nearly always be cheaper, unless you spend serious time on the boat
2. If the boat stops working, you stop paying
3. There's no risk of a big one off repair cost, or an uninsured loss, so it's a known cost
4. When something breaks, you tell the captain or owner, then check in to the luxury hotel down the road with infinity pool and mojitos to die for, paid for by 2. above
5. You can choose a different cruising grounds each year without paying for the fuel to get there or waiting for a weather window to make the trip
6. You can change "your" boat every year (or every week) without brokers fees, rampant depreciation or the hassle of changing
7. You can do multi centre holidays, maybe a week in Florida with a nice villa and a Boston Whaler 320 and twin 300 Mercs at the end of the garden, then a week sailing round the Greek Islands on a 50 foot sailing yacht, then a week with friends in Croatia on a 65' motor yacht with stewardess. All this for less than the cost of keeping a 50' mobo in the Solent.
8. You don't have to deal with shoddy/unreliable/dishonest contractors to repair and maintain your boat (especially an issue in SoF)
9. You can invest the capital, and in a good year the return may pay for your chartering

I think it all comes down to a). how much you want to own a boat rather than just use one, and b.) how much you like tinkering and fixing stuff yourself (although this is harder anyway if you keep the boat abroad). If neither of these are important to you, then chartering will be better in most cases I think.
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as usual Nick, your posts are alway's very clear and very correct,
this one is very confronting :(

but you know in our case its a love affair :)
en we love these short hopovers to the boat all year, even more now to Tivat and Cavtat

what's your plan for the future?
your P57 is getting old, and you might have reached the end of her fun time , almost ?
 
I only view occasionaly but love the craic on here and the occasional pics videos and good advice and dream of doing some med stuff keep it up !!
 
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