Charter

[merlin1]

Beware of Greek Charter Companies, in particular Kiriacoulis.

I have recently chartered from them, intending to sail from Skiathos down the sheltered West coast of Evvioa to Athens, a route that offered numerous stopping points for day sailing. Their base manager told me this was the wrong route and I should go via the East coast. When I pointed out that the crew were my wife who has limited experience and ability, (this was spelt out to him and on all pre-booking forms), and myself only and that I was concerned on the distances and conditions involved he assured me that there would be no problem, with a predominant F4/5 ensuring a good passage. On the third day, we set out in a predicted F4 which soon rose to become a F7. This being to much for our limited capability we had to alter our intended 8 hour passage to the only alternative destination, however this still required a 4 hour plus sail in conditions that continued to rise to F8/9.

When the conditions continued the next day with no signs of letting up I had no alternative but to ask for assistance from Kiriacoulis. A crew was sent but they insisted that I pay for him (390 Euros for 1 day). I pointed out that their recommendation was the only reason I needed assistance. They said it was always the skippers responsibility, even though I pointed out that it would have been foolish to have ignored their advise.

Beware before you charter with this company.


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[RupertW]

Don't quite understand the problem.

You were skippering a boat, you went out with the forecast, the wind changed for the worse and you made the right decisions to get you safely to a harbour. Frightening yes, it's the frightening bits that build up experience, and I find they do keep happening.

When you asked for a more experienced skipper to take over, they supplied one promptly, but charged as the charter had changed from bareboat to skippered.

Sorry you had such a rotten holiday, and hope that you enjoy your next sails a bit more.




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[snowleopard]

all too easy to let your judgement be swayed by someone who confidently spouts a load of rubbish.

as a kid i was helming a school dinghy on a beam reach across the solent. sat next to me was an adult who insisted i haul the main in tight. he was so confident and insistent i thought he was an instructor so did as i was told, against my better judgement. we got to bembridge an hour after the rest of the fleet, knackered from sitting out all the way. on the way back our big-mouthed beginner was on another boat and we got back first after an easy sail. it taught me that confidence doesn't necessarily make someone right.

i'm sorry you had the traumatic experience, legally of course the decision was yours but you didn't have the experience to ignore bad advice from an authoritative source. morally at least he was in the wrong. while there's very little case for redress, there is a silver lining-

you survived and got the boat safely to harbour in difficult conditions and next time you get caught out in heavy weather you'll be more confident in your abilities. just don't let it put you off.

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[boatless]

This is a bit of a generalisation, but I am often horrified at the lack of general sailing experience in those with senior positions in charter and flotilla fleets in the Eastern Med in particular. Managers, lead skippers etc.. (and this is not a rant at Fasttrack btw). Just a reflection on 15+ years sailing out there.

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[jay]

I too have had a poor a experince with Kiracoulis staff - but dont tar all companies with the same brush. I've had excellent service from Vernicos - and from a company called Easy Sail (who actually subcontract to Vernicos).
If you want to try a less challenging area then tackle the Ionian next time - the distances involved between ports are less and the conditions are (usually) more benign.

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[boatless]

Agree completely, it's not any one company, all have their good/bad eggs I'm sure. It's just that it is a bit life and death, under a veneer of sunshine and blue water. I've seen stuff that's made my blood run cold, and am of the view that it's a matter of when, not if, one of the companies gets sued after a fatal, but preventable, accident.

Also agree that the North Ionian has to be the most beginner friendly bit of Greece.

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[merlin1]

Rupert, perhaps you have not understood my post correctly.

I asked for an assistant to take the yacht to the more sheltered area that I originally intended to sailed in, not a skipper to take over. An assistant was needed because I had followed the recommendation of Kiriacoulis. Companies making recommendations should be competent to do so, i.e. they should be knowledgeable on the boat, crew and likely conditions. I have to question their knowledge or competence.

Thanks to the others that responded with their experience.

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[tcm]

Re: who\'s the skipper?

hm.

Chartering boats, there is sometimes this sort-of feeling that..who's the skipper? - you or the owners?

All sorts of weird stuff happens - like assistants jumping on the boat as you approach marina on fianl day, dodgemstyle, telling you what to do and how fast to go. Eyup - your boat, you have control matey, you are now the skipper, i'll go and pack the bags - or dya weant me to do fenders?

Another time we're moored up and a flotilla gang comes in from the same company, who then proceed to poi t out that (despite the boat being pressed hard on the pontoon) ther's a spring missing. Hm, wel, i'm the skipper and think it's ok as it is. But it's your boat so if you want to put more lines on, I'll permit it. But make sure you don't change the existing lines, cos it's my risk at the moment innit? See? Me: skipper - you: bloke on pontoon.

I try and make sure it's one way or another. So i don't tellem where i'm going cos i mite go this way, or another way, or nowhere at all. "Just around and about, haven't decided at this stage" - although of course I find the limits permitted and dodgy bits etc. I may easily decide to go the "wrong" route - unless it's outside permitted crusing limits. I'm the skipper, so i decide.

I spose in the same way, the moment you ask for "assistance" - they'll put a skipper on board, and then he's in charge, ultimately. If I was renting out boats, I'd do the same, really.





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[RupertW]

Merlin

I can see exactly where you're coming from, and perhaps I tried to read between the lines of your post, rather than taking it on face value. I suppose I tend to think of the skipper as ultimately responsible, even of a charter boat, and even bad (optimistic??) advice is just one factor, along with checking the forecasts if possible, checking the boat is working and safe, ensuring skipper and crew are competent to sail the waters with whatever might come up at that time of year etc. etc.

I can't see how a charter company can make a rational decision on all those factors from an application form, and perhaps they just judge how likely it is that the boat will get broken. To your enormous credit, you dealt with the weather and made harbour safely, and therefore showed they were right to risk you chartering the boat. Not very nice of them, I admit, but they may be no different to any other charter company.







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