Charged to anchor

[mike_bryon]

We are just back from a six week cruise in south west of UK and Ireland and anchored all but 5 nights.

We were charged to anchor in Dartmouth (£10), Falmouth (£10) Alderney (£2.50) and Kinsale (E10). The Falmouth charge was not forewarned in reeds almanac.

In Alderney the charge included use of showers (fair enough), the Dartmouth charge included a rubbish collection service (a bit OTT).

We avoided a few other places where a charge was forewarned and stayed less time in the locations where we were charged.

This was our first home waters cruise for a number of years and feel it a shame that these charges had become so widespread.

 

[Frontier]

I have just bought my first boat, and in recent months have been learning a lot from the forum. I couldnt believe it when I first found out you have to pay at every harbour you might pop into along the way. I can appreciate you should contribute toward your home location, but all the other's, it's a bit much. OK maybe if you are stopping for a week, but daily is a rip off.

As for paying to anchor, that is the latest surprise. I knew boating would be expensive, but I thought it would be just the boat and SWMBO's new nautical wardrobe! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif




It must be a real pain actually arranging the payment too!

 

[jerryat]

Hi Mike,

Yep, this disgusting creeping charge is one of the things that really annoys me. Everywhere else in western Europe (at least the places I've been to) allows anchoring for nothing. They don't provide facilites, but want the revenue boats bring, so don't charge

This is one of the reasons I don't go to Dartmouth, Falmouth etc anymore.
At least, I don't pay if I do. For example, although St Mawes (opposite Falmouth) has a charging regime in theory, I've nipped down there four times so far this year and haven't been charged. Even chatted to the harbourmaster while aboard last time!

Never mind yer red diesel debate, this is one area where I really do think the RYA et al should be making a helluva lot more noise than they are.

Mini rant over!

Cheers Jerry

 

[mainshiptom]

Well, They only charge people who pay !

I refuse to anchor anywhere where there is a chgarge !

I anchor lots on the east coast and never have to pay !

Maybe people on the south coast have too much money to trow away or they want to put off vistors to thier towns and vilages?

tom

 

[jerryat]

That's just it Tom, there ARE too many people who are prepared to shrug their shoulders and cough up.

We anchor all the time (couldn't tell you the last time we were in a marina) but this blight is going to stop even that in this country.

It's another reason why we're hoping to get away south again next year if things work out, and boy, do I hope things work out!!

I have actually anchored in Falmouth and not had to pay as it happens, and if anyone did try to charge, I'm outta there!

Cheers Jerry

 

[ChrisE]

With all respect Jerry, as far as I'm aware the dues at Dartmouth have been payeable since forever and I believe are not anchoring charges but harbour dues a fee which is added onto your fees however you choose to moor anywhere in the Dart. The fees pay for the upkeep of the harbour. Some visitors have the same problem with my local harbour, Keyhaven, again someone has to pay for the dredging, etc that keeps the river usable. As you say if you don't like it don't go there.

I don't have a problem paying for anchoring in harbours, they are afterall just that manmade artifices, well the lights, etc are, that have to be maintained and someone has to pay for that. As far as I'm aware you don't have to pay in Salcombe just down the road so you pays your money. And before you ask I too spend most of my time at anchor and don't pay unless there is good reason to and I don't have money to burn.

 

[Joe_Cole]

[ QUOTE ]
. As far as I'm aware you don't have to pay in Salcombe just down the road so you pays your money. .

[/ QUOTE ]

You do have to pay in Salcombe, I can't remember how much they charge for anchoring but in Salcombe everything is expensive!

 

[ChrisE]

I stand corrected, however, I've never paid when dropping the hook on the starboard side on that narrow strip of sand. Still, I guess by my earlier argument I should have!

 

[Joe_Cole]

They've made me put my hand in my pocket there!

They'll probably back date the charges next time you go!

 

[ChrisE]

Thanks for the warning!

 

[jerryat]

Hi Chris,

They most certainly do charge at Salcombe and, as a result, we have not been back since the first time that happened - many years ago!! /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

I haven't been to Dartmouth, again for years, but we never used to get charged when anchoring, especially further upriver. The same applied to Falmouth.

I'm not trying to pick out individual places actually, but to draw peoples' attention to what, for us and many others, is becoming yet another means of picking the 'rich yotties' pocket. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

We have absolutely NO problem with paying for services provided, and this includes a reasonable sum for lights, buoyage etc. However, in many places, a disproportionate hike in fees has occurred when these services haven't changed in any way for years. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

No, I'm certain this is just another way for local/harbour authorities to climb on the bandwagon of getting as much as they can for as little as possible.

The same applies to moorings ........... but that's another rant factor for me!

Cheers Jerry

 

[ChrisE]

Jerry,

We might have to agree to disagree on this one, FWIW, here's my take on it.

I'm not sure that they are targetting 'rich yotties' though, it is more that as we all demand lower taxes, such as council taxes, the councils have to balance their books and if they have an expensive asset to maintain, such as Keyhaven river, they charge the users, ie you and me, rather than the ordinary tax payer.

Let me recommend Norway, no charge for anchoring, no one else in your anchorage either. No charges for mooring alongside in most harbours either! Can be a bit chilly at times tho'

Chris

 

[jhr]

I think that what you have to pay in Salcombe is Harbour Dues, as with several other places mentioned here, though it's perhaps an academic point since the end result is money leaving your pocket and entering someone else's. To add insult to injury, and IIRC, "Someone else" is often Big-Ears, c/o the Duchy of Cornwall.

There was a question in one of the Mobo mags recently, about the legality of being charged to anchor and the reply, from a lawyer specialising in marine law, was that a right to charge for anchoring existed ony where there was a long established history, and therefore an ancient right to charge. He took the examples of Newtown Creek, where he reckoned the NT had absolutely no right to charge for anchoring (but could charge for use of the buoys of course, since they lay and maintain them) and the Beaulieu River, where the riverbed is privately owned and there is a long established right for Lord M. to charge for anchoring.

Elsewhere, the tendency to demand money to anchor seems questionable at best, and illegal at worst. Didn't S**l*ng T*d*y run a campaign about this some time back?

 

[Swagman]

FYI we sailed for 20 years in Western Australia and unless that's changed in the last five, most club marinas would not even charge a guest for an overnight stay.

It's been a surprise to come to the UK / EU and have to shell out so much to park a boat on the south coast - but it seems fundamentally wrong to me when one has to shell out to anchor!

Not sure what can be done to change this practice - but whatever can - should be.

JOHN

 

[MacMan]

I was charged in Keyhaven the other day. (Anchored just inside the "river mouth")

I wondered what facilities I was paying for ? I also wondered about the legality of the charge. What would happen if just refused to pay ?

Chris. Does a lot of dredging happen then ? The River Warden guy I spoke to seem to imply that mother nature was making it's own new channel??

I anchored to my own anchor and chain obviously - there was no rubbish collection, no landing facilities where I was. Now if I had been at the "town quay" or taken one of their moorings I would of course expect to pay. And it would indeed be up to me to accept whatever charge they choose or choose to go elsewhere.

But my boat is in the Solent and I don't really want to go elsewhere all the time. I would like to Anchor in some of the various nice places nearby and where I use none of the facilities it doesn't really seem right that I would pay.

I am happy to navigate in there without the buoys. I think a bit of depth sounder pilotage and a chart and the odd GPS point would do the trick. I have very little draft.

Now I have to confess the charge was only £3 (short stay) It really is a principal that bothers me.

I can't really understand how the River Warden actually makes a profit on this anyway - by the time you pay for his boat, outboard fuel and wages surely I am just paying for him to collect the cash. Rather pointless ?

This isn't of course the only place - Do the National Trust really have the ability to charge for those at anchor in Newtown Creek ?

I know Beaulieu is a privately owned river but I thought it was the only one.

Does anyone refuse to pay anywhere Solent or elsewhere ? What happened ?

 

[MacMan]

\"adverse reaction\"

I note this link to Newforest District Council

Keyhaven River policy

And in particular the phrase "little adverse customer reaction"

To summarise in plain English - we will try it on and if they pay and don't complain too much we will call it a successful policy !

I wonder how many other Harbours charges started/will start on the same basis ?

 

[ChrisE]

Yes, the dredging does take place, the quay gets repaired, the moorings are kept in good repair and the channel markers get maintained every year. You are right in that mooring dues do not pay his wages they contribute to it. We, who have moorings on the river, pay dues which also contribute. I'm not sure that the whole pay his wages but in the absence of any thing else the money would have to come from New Forest DC council tax as he is an employee of theirs.

I'm not sure how unique Keyhaven is in that it is owned and maintained by a district council but given that it is and it costs money to maintain then the cash has to come from somewhere.

 

[rwoofer]

[ QUOTE ]

Does anyone refuse to pay anywhere Solent or elsewhere ? What happened ?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would definitely like to know any answers on this. I had a big conversation with the guy at Newtown Creek over the issue and him seemed to imply that I would be breaking the law by not paying. There must be someone in the legal profession who can give us some guidance to challenge these fees.

 

[jhr]

Newtown Creek

[ QUOTE ]
He seemed to imply

[/ QUOTE ] That's your answer. If you were really doing something illegal, he'd be quoting chapter, verse, subsection and clause at you.

Actually, I always pay at Newtown, it seems churlish not to. But I reckon the NT's got a bit of a nerve. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

[MacMan]

Re: Newtown Creek

Presumably ( I have no proper legal knowledge) the route has to be. Sorry Mr Harbour master sir I don't believe you have the legal right to charge me to anchor my own vessel here using my own tackle. Here is my Name and address with proof please feel free to take this through the courts if you still believe you are right. Good day !

But of course this risks them actually taking you to court and costing thousands to save a fiver.

But of course once one person had won (if they did) then the cats out the bag and no one would have to pay again.

You would just quote the precedent.

Any volunteers ? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Or maybe someone has tried and they just didn't bother as they know they would lose or couldn't face the effort for 5/10 quid.

Anyone done this ?

Happy for anyone with more legal knowledge than me (i.e anyone) to correct my assumptions !