charged for carpenters blades

[Madhatter]

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Lets be
clear on this.

A Quote includes all costs and an itemised
description of the work to be performed and perhaps a methodology
statement.

The trades person will assume the worst case
scenarios to complete the work and the total will include all the
'possible' extra costs because he is doing the work to make a profit,
not including the above may mean a loss.

An estimate on the
other hand is for what the expects will be required, but does not
include any items he could not anticipate.

Any unexpected
extra work will be added to the estimate, so it's important for you
and the contractor to detail all 'expected' work and materials.

The
bottom line here is that a quote will have a much higher figure than
an estimate.

Also keep in mind that many estimates will be
over the original amount, but some less than original figure.

Jobs
based on time and materials are a trades persons dream, no rush, no
materials costs that won't be recovered.

A good example of the
above options would be:

SHMBO tells you it's time to do up the
old bathroom because it leaks a bit and too hard to clean.

The
trades person arrives to look at the job, all he has to do is strip
and put new tiles on.

The cost of stripping and re laying the
tiles on walls and floors is simple enough, the cost of the tiles
will be down to you, simple.

But the backing sheets have been
damp and fall apart when removing the tiles, the sheet/s will have to
replaced.

The timber frames holding the sheets have also
rotted in places and need replacing.

The slight leak turns out
to be in the bath outlet so it has to removed to repair it.

Not
so simple now.

A quote may well have contained all of the
above, all be it in sub sections.

An estimate may contain all
the above but you would only pay for the actual amounts incurred to
fix each area.

A time and materials would have cost less than
a quote but more than an estimate.

PS. I only ever provide an
estimate, with full details of work to be performed and materials to
be used.

I also add notes about things I might find during the
demolition that may require rectification along with further
estimates on costs based on lineal and/or square metres.

85%
of jobs completed end up less than original estimates but not my
much.

I hope this helps.

Good answer Oldsaltz - but will anyone take notice of your logic !!

 

[Ubergeekian]

In the present climate only a fool would give a fixed quote as building/raw materials have gone up nearly 20-25% this year.

Quote, estimate, rate, whatever. Do you charge by the squirt for swarfega?

And with due respect "get real" this is said in the most civil manner I can muster

Oh dear.

 

[Ubergeekian]

Good answer Oldsaltz - but will anyone take notice of your logic !!

Well, it's got very little to do with the question, has it? Which is, in essence "should minor consumables be charged for separately or rolled into whatever pricing structures is otherwise in use?"

 

[Madhatter]

Ubergeekian Ubergeekian is online now
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Castle Douglas, SW Scotland
Posts: 3,593
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quandary View Post
Perhaps UberG. is a barrister?
No, I just like arguing!

You may like an argument but as any lecturer knows an argument must be based on ,adequate information,full facts,common sense,but most of all an intimate knowledge of your trade/modus operandi , if you don't fulfil most of these criteria ( especially the latter) you can not be taken seriously in your reply especially if the majority of sensible answers are given by the tradesmen or associated trades involved.
Effectively I would not offer an opinion on your field of expertise unless I had adequate knowledge , hence I won;t tell you how to "lecture".
I am trying very hard not to get annoyed at some of the answers here on this subject but I am sick sore and tired of the label applied to the construction industry as filled with "cowboys" (yes there are some ) but nobody mentions the "cowboy" customers who use any excuse not to pay/pay for extra's imposed by customers inability to make their minds up on certain necessary amendments to the original plan /" I'm not paying you the £30,000 because the light switch is crooked" and other such excuses for none payment that goes on for 6 months or more and never mentioned all together but one at a time as each one is addressed ( even if an unjustified complaint) , those that do not have the funds available to pay the final invoice.

 

[Madhatter]

Well, it's got very little to do with the question, has it? Which is, in essence "should minor consumables be charged for separately or rolled into whatever pricing structures is otherwise in use?"

You don't seem to have even a basic knowledge of how some jobs work ;- a small job that is almost impossible to "estimate for"is built up of ,time spent,materials bought,cost of getting to and from ,AND CONSUMABLES no matter how small as these can make or break the profitability of the job ( that may only be a couple of hours actual work), or do you think we should just think of a figure then double it and add next weeks take away curry ?
Sorry but we don't have a large salary or sick pay,holiday pay ,£1.75 mileage allowance, or gap years,big pay off's if we ****up, lets face it if all you do is talk what tools are you likely to blunt or snap ?

THIS is defiantly. my last post on the subject.

 

[BruceDanforth]

I wonder what is the average hourly rate of all the people on here who have banged on for ages about the cost of a couple of blades.

 

[Ubergeekian]

I am trying very hard not to get annoyed at some of the answers here on this subject but I am sick sore and tired of the label applied to the construction industry as filled with "cowboys" (yes there are some ) but nobody mentions the "cowboy" customers who use any excuse not to pay/pay for extra's imposed by customers inability to make their minds up on certain necessary amendments to the original plan /" I'm not paying you the £30,000 because the light switch is crooked" and other such excuses for none payment that goes on for 6 months or more and never mentioned all together but one at a time as each one is addressed ( even if an unjustified complaint) , those that do not have the funds available to pay the final invoice.

I'm sorry, what does that have to do with whether you add petty expenses to the bill?

 

[Ubergeekian]

You don't seem to have even a basic knowledge of how some jobs work ;- a small job that is almost impossible to "estimate for"is built up of ,time spent,materials bought,cost of getting to and from ,AND CONSUMABLES no matter how small as these can make or break the profitability of the job ( that may only be a couple of hours actual work), or do you think we should just think of a figure then double it and add next weeks take away curry ?

Yes, of course. But that's not the point. Do you list laundry costs for your work clothes as separate items on the bill? Do you list depreciation on the tools of your trade? Do you list the costs of producing the bill?

 

[Ubergeekian]

I wonder what is the average hourly rate of all the people on here who have banged on for ages about the cost of a couple of blades.

You don't want to know. Trust me.

 

[BrendanS]

the really wealthy ones will have argued the toss with the florist about how many petals were on the flowers they last bought from florist, whilst the working people who understand the cost of 'little jobs' would probably have just paid it, whilst possibly checking if 2 blades were necessary and why

 

[xtiffer]

At the end of the day isn't it all really about trust.
I frequently work on an hourly basis (€10 ) and material costs extra.
I simply give a total materials bill and pass on the receipts for perusal. If the customer wants a breakdown on costs then that can be given from my records but nornally they accept my word that these costs were justified.
After 20 years of varnishing classic yachts I think my reputation
is all I need and the cost of hiring it is peanuts.
As you can guess I am usually broke but will never suffer from stress related illnesses. I live in a beautiful place with a relatively low cost of living and great people.
I akso have the choice of who I will work for. Anyone who doubted my honesty would be dropped immediately and the grapevine would know.
Is stretching the truth a requirement for being a good businessman? My observation of casino financial markets suggests it is. I prefer to live by the moral code I grew up with and remain financially poor but still able to look at myself in the mirror.
Cheers,
Chris

 

[whipper_snapper]

whilst the working people who understand the cost of 'little jobs' would probably have just paid it, whilst possibly checking if 2 blades were necessary and why

Indeed. I would invariably do a small job (like this seems to be) myself. If I decide to employ a professional, I would expect to pay a fair rate. If I thought the 2 blades were OTT, but only a few quid, I would pay without quibble, but take every opportunity to take the urine about his shaky hands and breaking blades.


Then he would know I knew and we would still be friends for next time.

 

[BruceDanforth]

Ask for the blades before you pay up.

Brian

You might then find that you have the blades but they need to be extracted by a proctologist.

 

[Lakesailor]

Of course the answer which would seemingly appease those who object to being charged for consumables is to add an hour to the bill for "difficulty encountered during the work"
When working as a photographer I used to add £5 to an invoice if I missed my morning coffee. But I didn't mention that to the customer.

 

[Madhatter]

Yes, of course. But that's not the point. Do you list laundry costs for your work clothes as separate items on the bill? Do you list depreciation on the tools of your trade? Do you list the costs of producing the bill?

None of those are regarded as consumables,any more than your suit cleaning,mouthwash,dental bills,toupee,and leather elbow patches are !, as they are all related to every job you do are are reflected in you hourly rate with the exception of specialist clothing :-asbestos/bio-hazard/chemo-hazard removal, and yes in some cases wear on certain equipment is listed ,as for bill see previous part of this post.

WITH DUE RESPECT
I am sure you must have had enough of this display of ignorance on your part by now to be able to drop this subject and withdraw from this discussion with at least a bit of dignity.
Goodnight

 

[Ubergeekian]

I am sure you must have had enough of this display of ignorance...

Yes. I thought you said you weren't going to post any more?

 

[Madhatter]

Yes. I thought you said you weren't going to post any more?

I lied

 

[Poignard]

Our phone number is similar to that of the local vet.

We came home one day and found a message on our answerphone from a bereaved dog owner.

Apparently she used to own twin Labradors. One had died, the vet arranged its cremation and gave the owner the ashes in a container.

The second one had recently died and again she got the ashes from the vet.

In a voice quivering with emotion she demanded to know why she had far fewer ashes from the second mutt than from the first, when both dogs were the same size at death.

I would have loved to know how the vet explained his way out of that,

 

[reginaldon]

Of course the answer which would seemingly appease those who object to being charged for consumables is to add an hour to the bill for "difficulty encountered during the work"
When working as a photographer I used to add £5 to an invoice if I missed my morning coffee. But I didn't mention that to the customer.

I certainly will be charged for consumables (ie.: resharpening of planer blades, if I get a piece of teak rubbing strake planed down to the size of my existing rubbing strake) and how! A coverall price of £25 and the joinery manager is a yachtsman!

 

[reginaldon]

At the end of the day isn't it all really about trust.
I frequently work on an hourly basis (€10 ) and material costs extra.
I simply give a total materials bill and pass on the receipts for perusal. If the customer wants a breakdown on costs then that can be given from my records but nornally they accept my word that these costs were justified.
After 20 years of varnishing classic yachts I think my reputation
is all I need and the cost of hiring it is peanuts.
As you can guess I am usually broke but will never suffer from stress related illnesses. I live in a beautiful place with a relatively low cost of living and great people.
I akso have the choice of who I will work for. Anyone who doubted my honesty would be dropped immediately and the grapevine would know.
Is stretching the truth a requirement for being a good businessman? My observation of casino financial markets suggests it is. I prefer to live by the moral code I grew up with and remain financially poor but still able to look at myself in the mirror.
Cheers,
Chris

My son and daughter have always employed thorough and reasonable tradesmen, giving them plenty of business and recommends (and generally a bonus) - undoubtedly it's about reputation and trust.