Chandlers life’s threaten

[Wansworth]

To day the Spanish fishermen who had been victms of pirates return to Spain.The government maintains it has wored tirelessly for the release and denies paying a ransome.What is different here is the event has brought a tirade from the opposition party,using the situation to gain political advantage.I would assume that as the government and oppostion in the uk are more responsible they are working towards a happy outcome ..but not through the media.

 

[graham]

Sadly, neither do I . Very few it appears would even fork out £100 to save the Chandlers' lives and I am afraid I find their rational 'justifications' for this largely self-serving. Well done to those who have said they would pledge £100, but I don't think we are going to have to find it any time soon.

And - to the poster who suggested starting a fund would cause raised expectations among the pirates - please read my posts more carefully. I specifically said at the start that this would be a waste of time. That is why I suggested one person should pay the ransom then claim the money back in contributions from the rest of us.

Let us hope that the pirates are bluffing - it is obvious the Chandlers can expect nothing but hot air from their fellow yachties on here. Sympathy is cheap.

- W

To say that those who disagree with you are only acting out of self serving motivation is arrogant in the extreme.

The next road side bomb that kills a British Soldier may well have been funded by money creamed from ransoms of this type.(Sadly you probably wont need to wait long)

Try and see the bigger picture.

 

[webcraft]

Who dares dies?

.

How dare you pontificate on this subject?

How dare you say how dare you. What a strange and incomprehensible question - which I assume was rhetorical?

The Somalis are making plenty of money from people less principled but more compassionate than you, so your blustering will make no difference whatsoever - except perhaps to the Chandlers. On Tuesday this week Somali pirates released a Spanish tuna trawler and its 36 crew seized more than a month ago in the Indian Ocean, saying they had been paid a US$4 million (2.6 million euro) ransom.

Speaking in Madrid, Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero confirmed the boat, the Alakrana, was free and its crew safe. He would not confirm a ransom was paid, but said the "government did what it had to do."

Life for a life that is about £67k per life, the demand for the Chandlers is slightly cheaper than that at £50,000.

So don't tell me not to pontificate. Plenty of merchant ships have been ransomed as well. It this all goes horribly wrong and the Chandlers are allowed to die for your high-minded 'principles' then I fail to see what purpose will have been served.

How dare I indeed. What a pompous thing to say, I can hardly believe you committed that to electronic print.

- W

 

[webcraft]

To say that those who disagree with you are only acting out of self serving motivation is arrogant in the extreme.

The next road side bomb that kills a British Soldier may well have been funded by money creamed from ransoms of this type.(Sadly you probably wont need to wait long)

Try and see the bigger picture.

Sorry, but I believe that the ultimate arrogance is telling someone else who hasn't enlisted in your war that they should die for your principles.

Anyway, not much point to this thread now. It was started by sailaboutvic with the very best of intentions and five people agreed to pledge £100 each in the event of the ransom being paid by someone. That is as far as it needs to go for now, the remainder of you can crawl off back to the Lounge and start patting each other on the back about what wise old owls you are - but patronise those of us who don't agree with your over-simplistic 'big picture'.

- W

 

[NOHOH]

Sorry, but I believe that the ultimate arrogance is telling someone else who hasn't enlisted in your war that they should die for your principles.

Anyway, not much point to this thread now. It was started by sailaboutvic with the very best of intentions and five people agreed to pledge £100 each in the event of the ransom being paid by someone.

- W

Well as they say....."The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions"........so... Off you go then

 

[l'escargot]

where are you coming from .. I suppose the mil of pounds they had from the shipping lines have been donated to there people . oh my god there another pig flying by .

Where I am coming from is that it becomes something me and a couple of mates could do with a couple of hand guns as opposed to being part of a large organisation with multiple boats and automatic weapons. More of a cottage industry approach - no flying pigs necessary. Does that sound a bit more believable?

 

[graham]

Sorry, but I believe that the ultimate arrogance is telling someone else who hasn't enlisted in your war that they should die for your principles.

Anyway, not much point to this thread now. It was started by sailaboutvic with the very best of intentions and five people agreed to pledge £100 each in the event of the ransom being paid by someone. That is as far as it needs to go for now, the remainder of you can crawl off back to the Lounge and start patting each other on the back about what wise old owls you are - but patronise those of us who don't agree with your over-simplistic 'big picture'.

- W

Trying to strengthen your argument by personal attacks on those with a different opinion to yours really is counterproductive.I was going to say childish but thought it a little harsh.

 

[reginaldon]

If someone on here does this I will pledge £100 towards the reimbursement fund, but I am not giving money to some sort of half-arsed committee of well-meaning but ineffectual wellwishers when it will almost certainly arrive too late.

- W

Not flush but I'll go down that road

As an ex-matelot I have been ashamed of the stance of the Senior Service ever since the Iranian debacle

 

[David_Jersey]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions............

I will not be putting a bounty on the heads of the Chandlers.

IMO best route is for HMG to establish and maintain contact with the kidnappers (not via self serving trite media statements saying: "we wash our hands" ......if anyone thinks that is a cover for any serious secret contact or rescue plan is sadly deluded) to discuss the mechanics of how they could be released as part of showing these Pirates that they are treated seriously / with due respect (the value of adding to a group's "mojo" amongst their peers should not be ignored), to develop contacts / some form of working relationship for future incidents and constantly making the points that the Chandlers have no commercial value, but that harm would result in a price being paid by the Pirates......and you can't do all that via the media.

Whilst I understand (and agree with) the HMG policy of no ransoms (although I suspect we have different motivations ) IMO no reason why upon exchange (maybe delivery by skiff to a RN warship offshore?) that HMG could not agree to meet the Pirate's expenses for delivery, say around USD10k........that sum would then be re-billed to the Chandlers - it's the same principal that UK Embassy's use when abroad when providing assistance so meets the "no ransom" and "no HMG money" principals.

Alternatively (whether via HMG / RN) the Pirates could maybe be persuaded to release Mrs Chandler on the basis that she could maybe raise some cash via media interest to ransom hubby..........on the basis that would be the only way any money would be forthcoming. Better still release both and the Pirates sign a book deal

If HMG do not establsh contact I rather fear that once the penny fully drops with the captors that they have an asset more hassle than worth they will take the easiest / cheapest way to rid themselves of the problem............and if anyone thinks that involves strategic long term thinking about the Somali pirate business model is a bit naive..........

Interesting that a couple of other folks here have been on the wrong end of "hospitality", albeit for probably rather more honourable reasons than some

 

[Ubergeekian]

The Chandlers say they may be dead within a week.

I understand the pirates only want £100k.

There must be someone on here who can put that up,

They have a boat and a house. All that's needed is a bridging loan.

 

[webcraft]

Praps

They have a boat and a house. All that's needed is a bridging loan.

That had occurred to me as well, but it may not be so easy to arrange from where they are. I expect the bank will want to see their latest utility bill.

Seriously, if they could do this then I am sure they would have done it.

And Reginaldon, welcome to the ranks of the less principled but more compassionate.

- W

 

[Mrs Sea Mist II]

Tough call. How much more attractive will private yachts become to pirates if a ransom is paid?

I agree, there's a reason why ransoms are not just paid out! Heartbreaking though, absolutely heartbreaking......

 

[Sybaris]

I pledge £100

Fact: Merchant ships are often freed by paying up the ransom
Fact: Merchant ships do go in organized (and paid for) convoys
Fact: Ransom has already been paid for pleasure yachts (German couple last year for example)

All gung-ho shoot em up ex-something or other members have another thread to discuss how best to shoot all pirates. This thread is about trying to help the Chandlers so how about sticking to that. If you don't want to help then don't post a message here.

"Look at me I am so good" posts that blame the Chandlers for being foolish sailing from the Seychelles to Africa are absurd. Imagine doctors at ER's deciding not to help certain accident victims because they were caused by the person being foolish or taking risks.

 

[Mrs Sea Mist II]

Sorry signed in under SWMBO's login not my own .. Should be EXFINNSAILOR

So what do you do when they do it again NEXT WEEK

What are you going to do about all the other people out there ..

The Government will not respond as it will just open the flood gates to more hijackings ..

Perhaps boats should just stay away ..

 

[webcraft]

A summary - and the rest of you please take your principles elsewhere

.
Mrs Sea Mist and others,

Please go away and start another thread elsewhere to discuss bigger issues of appeasement, the fight against terrorism etc. Many ransoms have already been paid out for much bigger fish, not paying one for the Chandlers will not change a single thing. Neither will your 'principled stance' do anything other than cause division and ill-feeling on what is meant to be a forum for like-minded individuals interested in sailing and the welfare of our fellow sailors. Take your bickering to the Lounge and leave us poor misguided do-gooders alone on here. If people want to try to help it is their right to do so free of high-handed moralising and sneering from the rest of you.

To summarise - £800 pledged with about 40% of respondents favouring helping. 37,000 listed members - lets say only 20% active, and lets say that in the end only 20% of them were willing to chip in. That would equate to 1,400 members willing to pay £100 each if it meant saving the Chandlers from a wholly unnecessary and random death. More than enough to raise the 100k demanded.

So - is there anyone prepared to put up the money? If not then it would be a great gesture if YBW paid it and then recouped the money from us, and I would venture to suggest good publicity for our sport. Anyone want to suggest it to them?

(But that's going to happen is it? No-one in IPC would have the power to vote through something like that without calling at least a few meetings. If we need to do it quickly then I think swift and decisive action by a private individual is the only answer)

- W

 

[NOHOH]

I pledge £100

Fact: Merchant ships are often freed by paying up the ransom
Fact: Merchant ships do go in organized (and paid for) convoys
Fact: Ransom has already been paid for pleasure yachts (German couple last year for example)

All gung-ho shoot em up ex-something or other members have another thread to discuss how best to shoot all pirates. This thread is about trying to help the Chandlers so how about sticking to that. If you don't want to help then don't post a message here.

"Look at me I am so good" posts that blame the Chandlers for being foolish sailing from the Seychelles to Africa are absurd. Imagine doctors at ER's deciding not to help certain accident victims because they were caused by the person being foolish or taking risks.

With respect...there are two distinct aspects to this whole situation... Without ANY doubt ALL of us would want to help to see the Chandlers freed...Many of us would not like to see the indiscriminate gunning down of any human beings including the pirates.....BUT.....and I note that you sail in the Red Sea.....What if continuing to pay these ransoms were to lead to an encouragement to piracy to such an extent that a) you were likely to become their next victims....and/or b) you were made to come to the decision that you couldn`t sail the Red Sea at all.....and then maybe you couldn`t sail the southern Med.

Somehow, this piracy stuff has got to end.... or the world will just "go to hell in a hand cart".....and at some time a stand has to be made.....Its an AWFUL dilemma. But in the final analysis WE HAVE TO STAND UP TO THESE GUYS. ...and there is never going to be atime when they don`t have any hostages

Ok , you would argue..."but not now"...maybe...maybe not..

But we would be interested in hearing how you would solve the problem of criminally motivated bunches of men building an ever more powerfully equipped private army and holding the rest of the world to ransom. They are not going to say ...OK I`ll get educated and settle down to a regular job and live in peace and prosperity are they?

 

[Koeketiene]

"Look at me I am so good" posts that blame the Chandlers for being foolish sailing from the Seychelles to Africa are absurd.

Really
How would you feel about a child putting his hand in the fire when advised not to?

Imagine doctors at ER's deciding not to help certain accident victims because they were caused by the person being foolish or taking risks.

Doctors are just required to patch you up - they're not required to put their lives on the line. Anyone sent out there to rescue the Chandlers would be.

Like Dutch tourists, the stupid are everywhere.

 

[NOHOH]

.
Mrs Sea Mist and others,

Please go away and start another thread elsewhere to discuss bigger issues of appeasement, the fight against terrorism etc. Many ransoms have already been paid out for much bigger fish, not paying one for the Chandlers will not change a single thing. Neither will your 'principled stance' do anything other than cause division and ill-feeling on what is meant to be a forum for like-minded individuals interested in sailing and the welfare of our fellow sailors. Take your bickering to the Lounge and leave us poor misguided do-gooders alone on here. If people want to try to help it is their right to do so free of high-handed moralising and sneering from the rest of you.

Webcraft, You come over as an awful prig who eventually will cause far more harm than good.

 

[David_Jersey]

Webcraft, You come over as an awful prig who eventually will cause far more harm than good.

Although earlier in this thread I did say that I would not contribute to any Hostage fund.............on second thoughts, I will pay for the tickets to Mogadishu if Webbie takes the cash personally.

I will leave others to chip in the return flights. or not

 

[webcraft]

Too much noise on here

.
The signal to noise ratio on this thread is out of control so I have started another one HERE which has no purpose other than for people to indicate their willingness to contribute should an individual or body pay a sum to release the Chandlers.

(Please click the link above to find it as it is likely to have sunk well below this thread in the rankings - I don't think just voting in a poll brings it back up the listings)

At least then on Monday when the mods are back the suggestion could be made to IPC with some idea of the level of support, although I don't hold out much hope. Worth a try though.

- W