Chandlers life’s threaten

This is a real Toughy. I am ex special forces and it would not be a good idea to PAY ransomes.
Yes I have been taken hostage myself and believe me I was Shi...ng my self with fear. My hostage takers were real killers. Not like the somalies who so far have not deliberatly killed any hostages due to lack of payment.

So the choice is yours.

I truely feel for the Chandlers

Peter
 
Last edited:
webcraft said:
I can't help thinking your response would be less trite if it was you and your wife held at gunpoint in a squalid room in East Africa paralysed by the stench of your own fear.

- W
Click to expand...
in those circumstances I would know my response would be of little consequence and any official response would take into account a far large picture than my immediate circumstances.

What you are proposing will place increasing numbers of small boats at risk and start spreading piracy far further.

If there is a guaranteed return from small unarmed yachts containing aged cruising couples that can be taken by a single dory and a handful of pirates, then large well defended targets will be a less attractive proposition. I know if I was a struggling fisherman in the third world what I would start looking for.
 
sailaboutvic said:
where are you coming from .. I suppose the mil of pounds they had from the shipping lines have been donated to there people . oh my god there another pig flying by .
Click to expand...

Its well known that Terrorist organizations have strong links to the area.Ransom money not only puts yachts at risk but will be financing international terrorism.
 
I heard on the radio that the pirates simply drop their Kalashnikovs over the side when any navy boat approaches so the navy can't distinguish them from ordinary fishermen. They then return to base, re-arm and start again.

Perhaps one approach would be for the navy to detain them on suspicion of piracy then arrange a simple exchange with real pirates for the hostages - not just the Chandlers but the hundreds of crew from the merchant ships seized. Any local out in the waters would therefore be at risk of being detained, which would impact both the genuine fishermen and the pirates and their families at home. That might curtail such activity without a) silly "special" forces gung-ho nonsense or b) giving them money.

I don't know how long they could legally be detained for (we don't want the navy to get into allegations of hostage taking or maltreatment of prisoners of course) but why are they not doing something like this now?
 
Last edited:
hostage release

I agree with all thats been posted but I would wish, if it were myself and my wife, that guys like you or indeed anybody, could get us released and the only way to do that is to pay the ransome, so £100 from me too, but only on the successful retrieval, alive of the hostages, as a result of it.

It does bother me too that (----- "Surely it's not beyond any Navy nowadays to find these b*****ds whilst they are offshore and blow them away. They represent a threat.---- ) its not possible for our government to even fund our Army with adequate equipment to fight wars that they have started, I would however like to believe that they do have somerhing in mind re the hostages.

I also think that the military`s rules of engagement need a severe overhaul, serious problems need serious actions and AKs are serious problems, just by threatening with them, let alone firing them at one.

We`ve got charities saving the Whales, So why not set up a world wide funded charity that patrols the relevant oceans of the world and searches out these tics on society and encourages them to give up their profession, after all every person they capture is a declaration of war on that person and their country. What are we? a bunch of, soft, woolly pully liberals that will actually let them get away with it and indeed pay them off, encouraging them to do it again? Perhaps my £100 will go to a " black ops" fast armed vessel that spends its time around the pirates coasts, but please, please, no TV series (Like Whale wars) about it. and dont name the charity after me (Ghengis Kahn pirate therapy trust)
 
Last edited:
The Chandlers are not going to be shot. You really are falling for every trick in the pirate book aren't you.

These people rely on ransoms being paid for hostages being returned alive and well. They may threaten to kill them but to do so would be an incredibly stupid move. One because they need them alive to bargain for, and second, it's because they don't kill the hostages that they aren't themselves shot on sight.
 
graham said:
Its well known that Terrorist organizations have strong links to the area.Ransom money not only puts yachts at risk but will be financing international terrorism.
Click to expand...

well then people should stop making comments about these are poor fishman with no other option I'm so sick and tried of hearing that . we all know that a lot of this is terrorist organizations and gangs , the point here is there are two british subject out there and some thing need to be done before there two died british subject .
 
Well I feel like a real s**t. I have £100 to spare but no way would I donate to the Pirate Bullies. I will give the £100 to Children in Need and I suggest we all do the same.

I love sailing, I feel terrible about the Chandlers BUT we dare not pay the Pirates or it will just escalate.

If the Pirtaes murder Chandlers (God forbid) then they will be signing their own death warrants, they aint that stupid. I hope I am not proved wrong with all my heart.

All my opinion but then and again it's also my £100. Cold-hearted perhaps but realistic.

Yes Nick I would think different if it was me or my family but it's not.

Steve
 
Harming any one of the hostages the pirates are holding would be a big escalation. In my opinion that event should be answered with an immediate rescue attempt on the remaining captive vessels.

There will be hostage casualties but it will finally give us back the initiative.

We solved the hijacking problem in the 70's this way, why not piracy.

PS. In reply to the £20m raised in support of children in need. In the week running up to Christmas the UK consumer will spend several £ billion on useless gifts. £20m is to be honest, embarrasing!
 
a word of caution

As I posted on the other thread, any professional KNR negotiator will tell you that the ransom demand is a flexible number in the early weeks and months of a Somali kidnap and that hostages statements about their physical and medical condition and about their captors intentions cannot be relied on, both because the hostages themselves can be deceived and because they are speaking under duress.

Any news that a fund is being got up will encourage the kidnappers and the ransom demand will go back up again.

I am very very sure that the British Government knows a lot more about what is actually going on here than we do. As I said in the other thread, it's the Chandlers misfortune that their case is being discussed in the media, whereas all the other hostages have their communications funnels through leak resistant organisations.
 
UK Government Decisions

sailaboutvic said:
we give up to bullies when the RN turned thier back on these couple .
yes it is a tough call
and I agree paying up may not always be the answer but it may be the only chance they have of coming out of this alive .
Click to expand...

The RN did not turn their back on any situation as they are controlled at a ministerial level.
If we could identify which minister / department / desk this came from, and hold them to account, if only on the basis of a name and shame campaign. This might then get them to apply a common U-turn policy and show others that only sensible correct action will be tolerated by the public.:(

Oh...by the way! ….I side with Csail.

“I will chip in to pay the SAS or SBS to go and kill the pirates”.

If they are disposed of as they are prepared to dispose of British Citizens then so be it. And a rather positive global message will be sent to all.
 
Last edited:
Welcome to the 21st Century

I doubt very much that the SAS SBS or any other unit are on stand by given the commitments our armed forces have around the world. The challenge in operating inside Somalia is enormous I don't think you can just tip up at the local airport with enough equipment to assault a pirate base then yomp to the target. The UK has no friends in that country.

Moreover, the EU task force operating around the Horn of Africa are bound by the rule of law, even pirates have human rights one might think they have more rights. On the face of it, it is fine to wage two wars on two entire nations killing innocents by the thousand but not to wage war on pirates. Regime change is not a legitimate war aim whilst the suppression of piracy is cause for the use of force, yet we let these criminals carry on. The 21st century is so full of these political paradoxes thanks to our brave, enlightened and principled politicians.

It would be a nice gesture for a whip round but who would coordinate it and who would volunteer to hand over the cash? I understand it is usually dropped by parachute in a large (very) box. The whole operation is carried out by some military contacting outfit.

But why oh why do they not operate a convoy system? I believe it is because our "leaders" are mostly lawyers and economists NOT historians.

The bottom line is the economy not the law as it applies to victims but should a convicted criminal catch a sniffle then their friends and relatives are ready to invoke the UN Convention on Human Rights.

On the plus side, The Somali pirates have never carried out any threats to murder, although peolple have died from natural causes and lack of medical attention.

We are governed by ditherers and bookeepers.
 
Great idea Webcraft

but I don,t think anyone,s going to forkout the full amount.
I suggest all us "pledgees" send transfer our monies to you, today, you cash it and take it out there. If its not quite enough at least it may buy some time.
Address and bank details please.
 
It wasn't the RN it was the RFA wasn't it - merchant ship manned by civilians carrying fuel and stores for the Navy, some Naval personnel aboard but not neccessarily fighting men, probably not better armed than the pirates.
Hopefully no money will be paid and no lives will be lost but paying ransomes isn't an option in the overall scheme of things, even if it might be good for the Chandlers.
I'd like to see ROE where the balance of probability in the opinion of the ships captain was enough to see boats blown away but it's not going to happen in the current, bleeding heart, climate, and remember that lives in Africa, Somalia particularly, are cheap it's the disparate sense of life's worth that keeps these things going, there's no point in taking pirates hostage nobody cares about them.
There was a time a few years ago when a Somali Govt (Islamic I think) cracked down on pirates, imposing the death penalty on those convicted and it worked very well but we can't do it, life imprisonment , in the West, for most Somalis would be undreamed of luxury besides we struggle to lock up our own baddies.
 
OK, shoot 'em then

I don,t think anyone,s going to forkout the full amount.
Click to expand...
Sadly, neither do I . Very few it appears would even fork out £100 to save the Chandlers' lives and I am afraid I find their rational 'justifications' for this largely self-serving. Well done to those who have said they would pledge £100, but I don't think we are going to have to find it any time soon.

And - to the poster who suggested starting a fund would cause raised expectations among the pirates - please read my posts more carefully. I specifically said at the start that this would be a waste of time. That is why I suggested one person should pay the ransom then claim the money back in contributions from the rest of us.

Let us hope that the pirates are bluffing - it is obvious the Chandlers can expect nothing but hot air from their fellow yachties on here. Sympathy is cheap.

- W
 
We must NOT pay these criminals any money at all. I to have been taken hostage all be it only briefly and whilst on active service and yes I was pooing myself but the last thing on my mind was the paying of blood money as this is the worst thing in the long run. On the poor fishermen angle a good friend of mine was recently made redundant and as of yet he has not become a bank robber (or I don't think he has !!)
 
webcraft said:
I can't help thinking your response would be less trite if it was you and your wife held at gunpoint in a squalid room in East Africa paralysed by the stench of your own fear.

- W
Click to expand...

Hardly trite......just NOT missing the point like you are with your stupid knee jerk reactions.

It would be the TOUGHEST call if it were your own family, dimwit,...any fool could see that...but if it were a choice between saving the lives of 2 people as against thousands...its bloody hard on the two...but the choice becomes more stark. Wartime leaders made this kind of decision more often than they would have liked. IN ESSENCE THIS IS NO DIFFERENT
 
webcraft said:
Sadly, neither do I . Very few it appears would even fork out £100 to save the Chandlers' lives and I am afraid I find their rational 'justifications' for this largely self-serving. Well done to those who have said they would pledge £100, but I don't think we are going to have to find it any time soon.

And - to the poster who suggested starting a fund would cause raised expectations among the pirates - please read my posts more carefully. I specifically said at the start that this would be a waste of time. That is why I suggested one person should pay the ransom then claim the money back in contributions from the rest of us.

Let us hope that the pirates are bluffing - it is obvious the Chandlers can expect nothing but hot air from their fellow yachties on here. Sympathy is cheap.

- W
Click to expand...

How dare you pontificate on this subject? It is obvious that the majority on here have thought deeply about the situation and have concluded that paying ransoms would only exacerbate the problem---you of course from your ivory tower see a different perspective,ergo everyone else MUST be wrong and unfeeling. Have you ever heard the old Scots saying "They're a' oot o' step but oor Jock!" ?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top