Chain jamming in anchor locker

[Leighb]

Is there any sure way to avoid the chain sticking so that every metre has to be hauled out of the locker by hand?

Last season I had no bother with it, but when I came to anchor last week I had a real problem budging it.

Before the trip I hauled all the chain out on deck and returned it to the locker as I thought it might have packed down after a bumpy trip across the North Sea. Perhaps it would have been better left where it was ?

Set up is a Bruce on a stemhead roller with 8mm chain, passing over a Seawolf electric windlass and then vertically down to the chain locker. Power is only up not down so I have to rely on gravity or muscle power to lower the anchor.

 

[sarabande]

where is the chain sticking pls ?

Round the gypsy, in the chain pipe, in the heap of chain on the sole ?

 

[Leighb]

where is the chain sticking pls ?

Round the gypsy, in the chain pipe, in the heap of chain on the sole ?

I guess it must the heap of chain in the locker. The chain pipe is very short, and it runs fine over the gypsy - when I can get it to move.

 

[Poignard]

Mine sometimes did that after rough weather because the chain got shifted around and tangled. I made the chain locker much narrower and it's ok now.

Also a long drop is better but you presumably can't do much to alter that.

 

[sarabande]

it's a bit mysterious. Prior to taking the chain out and returning it to the locker, everything was Ok, with the chain running out smoothly over the gypsy?


The natural angle of repose of chain (that's the 'steepness' of a pile of chain) is high, and if chain is 'poured' into a locker without being distributed fairly evenly over the sole, newly arriving chain can fall to the bottom of the heap and be covered / trapped by subsequent lengths.

Try taking out the chain on deck and re-inserting it into the locker , spreading it out as you do.

I think you need to arrange a pyramid shape in the chain locker beneath the chain pipe (I have seen traffic cones used for this...) so that chain is prevented from achieving a steeple effect, and spreads itself out.

(Imagine pouring honey from a spoon onto a plate. If you don't move the spoon, the honey forms a cone before it oozes out sideways. If you wiggle the spoon a bit, then the honey spreads out straight away. That's the effect you are trying to achieve - a low, flat cone)

 

[Leighb]

The locker is triangular in shape as it is right in the bow ahead of the forecabin.
It might be possible to fix some sort of cone thing below the chain pipe, I will investigate in the winter.

I still don't understand why last year all I had to do was ease the anchor and a foot or so of chain over the roller, and then release the clutch on the windlass for the anchor to drop as fast or slow as I wished, and now it has to be hauled kicking and screaming from its lair.

 

[JohnTH]

Try taking the chain off the boat and put it all in a cement mixer. Rumble it about with some grit for a while then wash everything with clean water and try it back on the boat. It works every time for me.

Cheers

John

 

[sarabande]

hmmm. Could it be that the gypsy brake (operated by the star handle) is binding, or there is corrosion on the axle or bearing ?

 

[Leighb]

hmmm. Could it be that the gypsy brake (operated by the star handle) is binding, or there is corrosion on the axle or bearing ?

I don't think so. Once I have got things moving the gypsy runs freely.

I think I will have to investigate in the locker and see if I can do something along lines suggested to ensure that the chain stows better.

Thanks for all the useful suggestions.

 

[Refueler]

Sounds like "tumbled links" ... when chain falls over in lockers the links get a twist to them and literally look like a twist. Only way to get it out is to range the chain and take out all twists.
Gypsy's can induce this by repeated in / out over the gypsy and the chain literally turning as it comes in to fit the gypsy slots. Chain should in theory "slip-slap" as it comes in ... that is flick right, then left, then right, then left etc. to sit in the slots of the gypsy, but after repeated use - sometimes it doesn't and you have a flick right, flick right ( or left ... left ...) whatever.

Difficult to explain !!

Anyway ... one way to reduce the consequence is to use a cut down traffic cone in the locker ... stand it directly under naval pipe so chain has to fall to side of cone ...

If that doesn't work - then you are stuck with similar to me ... having to pull chain along the locker manually ...

 

[boatmike]

Sounds like "tumbled links" ... when chain falls over in lockers the links get a twist to them and literally look like a twist. Only way to get it out is to range the chain and take out all twists.
Gypsy's can induce this by repeated in / out over the gypsy and the chain literally turning as it comes in to fit the gypsy slots. Chain should in theory "slip-slap" as it comes in ... that is flick right, then left, then right, then left etc. to sit in the slots of the gypsy, but after repeated use - sometimes it doesn't and you have a flick right, flick right ( or left ... left ...) whatever.
...

I think you have it in a nutshell.
Does the anchor have a swivel? If not after a period of time the chain gets twisted. Sometimes you can solve the problem easily by paying out all of your chain in deep water when not under way so the anchor does not touch the bottom. Even take the anchor off if you can't get in deep enough water. when you recover it the twist should come out. Don't forget to tie the bitter end to the boat first!! Also the post that talks about barrelling your chain is worth doing. Links get a crusty salty deposit on them that can in extreme cases "weld" them together. Chain only falls naturally if it is clean and not twisted.

 

[dulcibella]

Another version of the traffic cone idea is an inverted bucket at the bottom of the chain locker - works well for me.

 

[Leonidas]

Another version of the traffic cone idea is an inverted bucket at the bottom of the chain locker - works well for me.

Hallberg Rassy is supposed to have a "pile free" chain stowing arrangement in the chain locker. Anyone familiar with this?
To avoid twisting, an anchor swivel is well recommended. It is also well recommended to keep a good watch on it and have it regularly inspected for wear. Cheap swivel versions fail.
Somebody also suggested painting the aft bulkhead of the chain locker with anti-burglar paint (the one used for the gutter down pipes in the house) This apparently will stop the chain piling up under the spurling pipe of the windlass.
I am also perplexed that this windlass has only a hoist switch and freefall lowering arrangement. Surely it is not a major issue to wire up a dc motor to reverse its polarity through a second switch, unless there is some other mechanical issue in the gearbox preventing from doing so ???

 

[Refueler]

Twist in chain is not prevented by having a swivel at anchor joint. The problem that often creates chain problems coming up out of naval pipe is twist in the chain itself much further back along the chain in the locker.
as to 'burglar-paint' ..... so many lockers are different set-up that each needs own solution. My locker has chain via a large bore pipe drop down into locker under fwd section of Vee berth. The chain actually slides down the hull bow section ... others I've seen drop central to the locker, others to one side ... others at aft end ...
Some lockers are actually long narrow jobs under cabin sole needing people to drag chain back in bights to stow ...

 

[boatmike]

Twist in chain is not prevented by having a swivel at anchor joint. The problem that often creates chain problems coming up out of naval pipe is twist in the chain itself much further back along the chain in the locker.
as to 'burglar-paint' ..... so many lockers are different set-up that each needs own solution. My locker has chain via a large bore pipe drop down into locker under fwd section of Vee berth. The chain actually slides down the hull bow section ... others I've seen drop central to the locker, others to one side ... others at aft end ...
Some lockers are actually long narrow jobs under cabin sole needing people to drag chain back in bights to stow ...

I beg to differ. Swivels at the anchor joint are designed to take out the twist that is caused by a vessel rotating around an anchor. In fact they serve no useful purpose other than this. If you have ever sat at anchor on a catamaran that has a habit of "sailing" around in circles when anchored you would know. After two or three days it can wind up like a rubber band! Personally I don't like anchor swivels as they are a potential failure point and only use one when I am staying at anchor in one place for more than a couple of days. Not using one however creates exactly the problem previously described and I sometimes remove the anchor and pay out all chain in deep water as I suggested to remove the twist. Incidentally I find they work best if not attached directly to the anchor. I have several anchors apart from the main bower and each is attached to 3 metres of heavy chain before attaching the swivel (when I deem one necessary) which is then shackled to the main chain. This I find always works and even if I am at anchor in one place for a week or more the chain comes up untwisted. What you need to ask yourself is how that twist in the chain in the locker got there in the first place.....

 

[Refueler]

I beg to differ. Swivels at the anchor joint are designed to take out the twist that is caused by a vessel rotating around an anchor. In fact they serve no useful purpose other than this. If you have ever sat at anchor on a catamaran that has a habit of "sailing" around in circles when anchored you would know. After two or three days it can wind up like a rubber band! Personally I don't like anchor swivels as they are a potential failure point and only use one when I am staying at anchor in one place for more than a couple of days. Not using one however creates exactly the problem previously described and I sometimes remove the anchor and pay out all chain in deep water as I suggested to remove the twist. Incidentally I find they work best if not attached directly to the anchor. I have several anchors apart from the main bower and each is attached to 3 metres of heavy chain before attaching the swivel (when I deem one necessary) which is then shackled to the main chain. This I find always works and even if I am at anchor in one place for a week or more the chain comes up untwisted. What you need to ask yourself is how that twist in the chain in the locker got there in the first place.....

Arrrrr but we agree actually ... as I said the swivel at anchor joint ... If the swivel is placed later in the rode - particularly if its' near enough of the sea bed - then yes it does help a lot.
I already described the action of a chain over a gypsy - it's actually not uncommon on full size ships as well. But then we don't have chain jam in the spurling pipe.

My post earlier was more to do with twist in the chain IN the locker not outside it. That is deep in .... caused by repeated in / out of chain and stowage ... plus the OP's use of a gypsy.

 

[boatmike]

Arrrrr but we agree actually ... as I said the swivel at anchor joint ... If the swivel is placed later in the rode - particularly if its' near enough of the sea bed - then yes it does help a lot.
I already described the action of a chain over a gypsy - it's actually not uncommon on full size ships as well. But then we don't have chain jam in the spurling pipe.

My post earlier was more to do with twist in the chain IN the locker not outside it. That is deep in .... caused by repeated in / out of chain and stowage ... plus the OP's use of a gypsy.

Like I said on another thread. Great minds think alike!

 

[magnus_]

@Refueler, I know this forum is from quite a while ago now, but I'm now in the same situation as you, having to pull lengths of chain aft when weighing anchor to prevent the chain from jamming, and thus making it a two-man job. I'm now brainstorming ways to circumvent this, and wondered, did you ever think up a way of getting around this issue or at least easing the process?

Thanks.

 

[Neeves]

Try taking the chain off the boat and put it all in a cement mixer. Rumble it about with some grit for a while then wash everything with clean water and try it back on the boat. It works every time for me.

Cheers

John

You are removing galvanising, reducing the life of the chain.

Jonathan

 

[onesea]

I still don't understand why last year all I had to do was ease the anchor and a foot or so of chain over the roller, and then release the clutch on the windlass for the anchor to drop as fast or slow as I wished, and now it has to be hauled kicking and screaming from its lair.

How's about a winters worth of corrosion on the chain making it less slippery?

When you flaked it out and put it away did you do it dry?
Water makes it slippery, and stow better.

When it was first put away had somebody flaked down the first section (that you don't normally use) to make the pile considerably smaller? By taking it all out you have disturbed this?

My suggestions go to anchor lay out all your chain and put back wet. Maybe manually flaking it back in if you only use some of it normally.

Throw a bucket of water over the chain before paying it out to act as a lubricant.