Centre cockpits

[njsail]

Heres some of the benefits I see with a center cockpit:
- Having a back porch with deck chairs and a cooler. Life is good
- Having 3 sided engine access. Great access allows for better maintenance
- When sailing with friends if someone is blocking the winch I just walk out the back and around the side deck to work the winch from the wide side deck. Don't knock it till you try it.
- Another beni when sailing with friends and I need to go forward or aft slipping out the back is almost always easier. I don't have to ask people to shift and move.
- Having a comfortable stand up aft cabin with seating is a huge plus. we spend several hours a day there and enjoy it. I hate crawling into aft cabins. I don't want to spend time there. It's also more comfortable in hot weather in a center cockpit aft cabin since the volume is greater and we have a lot of large hatches and ports.
- you have many more options for wild sex in a large aft cabin (didn't think about that one either did you).
- I like the feeling and view from the center cockpit.
- The back deck is a good place for running a Honda 2000i generator. It's away from the cockpit. I can even put it on the first stair of the sugar scoop.
- our dogs can run around the deck chasing each other getting a little exercise during a sail. We have netting to help keep them aboard.

Here's a link to some pictures and layout of our model boat. It floats, we like spending time on it, and when we raise the sail on the mast thingy it moves nicely. For many decades I've owned boats from 11 feet on up. As long as the water stays on the outside of the hull, life is good. My point being the boat doesn't matter as much as why your are on the boat.
http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/bavaria-40-ocean/bavaria-40-ocean.htm

If you haven't spent time aboard a CC give it a try....you might not want to give it back. Don't forget to add a pretty woman, good food and drink and sail south. take the dock lines with you cause' your not coming back.

 

[GrahamM376]

Overall, I agree.
I am not familiar with your cockpit layout, and I empathise with your feeling of greater security.
Is it deep or shallow ?

This link to one for sale will give an idea of layout and cockpit. http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...78&ybw=&units=Feet&currency=USD&access=Public

By modern "pack em in" aft cockpit standards, it's fairly small but has the advantage that when heeled it's easy to brace ones self - feet reach the other side. I would say it's medium depth - deep enough to feel secure to the point that we very rarely wear life jackets as, with everything led aft, we don't have to leave the cockpit to raise, lower or reef sails.

 

[prv]

That arrangement is no longer common - it was when booms were longer

Yep - looking at most yachts they seem to have a lot of "wasted space" above the after third or quarter of the hull. You have the isosceles triangle of sail, some hull directly below it, and then some extra hull dragging along behind. However, if you were to extend the sailplan aft and fill this space, I assume you would in nearly every case create vicious weather helm. That's why I said "it's a bowsprit thing" - to make use of all your airspace above the hull, you need to extend the sails forward to stay balanced.

Pete

 

[fireball]

Heres some of the benefits I see with a center cockpit:
- Having a back porch with deck chairs and a cooler. Life is good
- Having 3 sided engine access. Great access allows for better maintenance
- When sailing with friends if someone is blocking the winch I just walk out the back and around the side deck to work the winch from the wide side deck. Don't knock it till you try it.
- Another beni when sailing with friends and I need to go forward or aft slipping out the back is almost always easier. I don't have to ask people to shift and move.
- Having a comfortable stand up aft cabin with seating is a huge plus. we spend several hours a day there and enjoy it. I hate crawling into aft cabins. I don't want to spend time there. It's also more comfortable in hot weather in a center cockpit aft cabin since the volume is greater and we have a lot of large hatches and ports.
- you have many more options for wild sex in a large aft cabin (didn't think about that one either did you).
- I like the feeling and view from the center cockpit.
- The back deck is a good place for running a Honda 2000i generator. It's away from the cockpit. I can even put it on the first stair of the sugar scoop.
- our dogs can run around the deck chasing each other getting a little exercise during a sail. We have netting to help keep them aboard.

If you haven't spent time aboard a CC give it a try....you might not want to give it back. Don't forget to add a pretty woman, good food and drink and sail south. take the dock lines with you cause' your not coming back.

Alot of your pluses are just easy access to the side tanks - we already have that in an aft cockpit boat.

The other benefits of the aft cockpit
- can have walk through stern - makes getting on and off from the pontoon easy if you've berthed stern in
- fewer shallow steps down to the saloon
- larger saloon
- most often a larger/longer cockpit
- for single aft cabins - much larger cockpit locker
- bigger cockpit drains
- when berthing you are standing at one end of the vessel - so you can see all the vessel without moving your head around much.

There is much talk of cockpit tents and using the whole length of the boat for centre cockpits .... well - our aft cockpit has a large cockpit tent that is up now and we also use the whole length of the boat - so that's a bit of a mute point.

 

[Tranona]

Yep - looking at most yachts they seem to have a lot of "wasted space" above the after third or quarter of the hull. You have the isosceles triangle of sail, some hull directly below it, and then some extra hull dragging along behind. However, if you were to extend the sailplan aft and fill this space, I assume you would in nearly every case create vicious weather helm. That's why I said "it's a bowsprit thing" - to make use of all your airspace above the hull, you need to extend the sails forward to stay balanced.

Pete

No need to take the sail plan aft in modern boats. The area is a function of taller mast. Well spread out (longitudinally) sail plans reflect short hull lengths and short masts. Bow sprits (and sometimes bumpkins) added to give more area and often more flexibility. Challenge is then to retain some kind of balance, particularly if you add long shallow keels and low ballast ratios! Relieving tackles common to fight tiller loads in any kind of breeze.

Remember hulls were the expensive bit - nice bit of pitch pine for a bowsprit is a cheap way of getting a longer base for a bigger rig. Now the hull is a much smaller proportion of cost and adding a metre or so in a sugar scoop is a great way of getting extra sailing length (and a good bathing platform) for little extra cost. Ovnis are the best example of this - extra bit of aluminium gives huge benefit for little cost - just like a bowsprit , but at the other end and used for a different purpose.

 

[Sybarite]

Nothing against them but, following from another post, what benefits compensate for catching more bow water?

For me it needs to a central cockpit with a hard top as per a Salar 40 or Moody Halberdier.

 

[prv]

No need to take the sail plan aft in modern boats. The area is a function of taller mast.

Ah, but what if you kept the taller mast *and* spread the area backwards as well? Then you'd have even more sail and go faster in light winds.

Probably one for Dan Crane, I think

Well spread out (longitudinally) sail plans reflect short hull lengths and short masts. Bow sprits (and sometimes bumpkins) added to give more area and often more flexibility.

Yep, that's my boat. Definitely fun, and sometimes useful, to have four sails to play with instead of two.

Challenge is then to retain some kind of balance, particularly if you add long shallow keels and low ballast ratios! Relieving tackles common to fight tiller loads in any kind of breeze.

You definitely have to be very aware of fore/aft balance in Kindred Spirit, with all that leverage from bowsprit and bumpkin. But once you know that, it's not hard to balance things up and have very light tiller loads. Upwind, you can easily let go of the tiller briefly to tweak a sheet or peer under the staysail. Things can get tricky downwind in a breeze, with a big barn-door of a gaff mainsail hanging out to one side trying to spin the boat round. The tillerpilot can't deal with that at all, and even hand-steering the drag of the rudder must be terrible. The solution is to goose-wing the mizzen over to the other side, then everything evens out.

Nothing to do with centre cockpits, but it's fun to consider different kinds of boats

Pete

 

[Slow_boat]

I can make a bed the width of the boat by six foot plus. We sleep cross ways and it's luxury.

However, I'm fed up with having to make the bed up every night and take it down every morning. We want a proper 'bedroom' . We can't stand the under-cockpit crawl spaces that pass for after cabins on so many aft cockpit boats and don't want to be climbing over the head of the fore-cabin bed every night, to so had pretty well settled on a Moody 34, mainly because of the after cabin and the possibility of extending the bed sideways.
The only downside I could see was the steep companionway ladder.

Then I tried a Prout 33 with it's queen sized bed.

 

[VO5]

This link to one for sale will give an idea of layout and cockpit. http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...78&ybw=&units=Feet&currency=USD&access=Public

By modern "pack em in" aft cockpit standards, it's fairly small but has the advantage that when heeled it's easy to brace ones self - feet reach the other side. I would say it's medium depth - deep enough to feel secure to the point that we very rarely wear life jackets as, with everything led aft, we don't have to leave the cockpit to raise, lower or reef sails.

I've had a look at the link, thanks.
Lovely boat. Typical Moody finish.
As a matter of fact, when Westerly were still building I know they kept a close watch on each others' designs. Hence the woodwork detail looks sort of familiar to me.
I have a particularly deep cockpit and it is easy to brace against the rim of the seating in the cockpit too when it gets lively, on the command of "Footies Up Please", to the tethered occupants therein safely and comfortably ensconced.

 

[VO5]

I forgot to mention...

Cockpit cushions...

As the seating is deep, to enhance this feature the seating cushions I now have are on the thin side rather than the fat side. Also, I have several nicely padded (but not overdone) square cushions fitted with a lanyard on two of the corners. These come in very handy to loop over the winches either side of the main hatch, and / or the sheet winches, altering the set by lengthening or shortening by adjusting the tie arrangement which is a reef knot.

The teak grating...

I have reinforced the teak grating from unferneath by supporting the cross members with honduras laths. These are kept in place firmly as a groove runs underneath these laths along which runs stainless studding secured at each end by nuts. It makes the grating extra strong....previously I would wince at crew jumping in and landing heavily on the grating as they have a tendency to crack if mistreated in this way. But now they can support the fattest of fatties without the slightest creak of complaint.

 

[GrahamD]

Alot of your pluses are just easy access to the side tanks - we already have that in an aft cockpit boat.

The other benefits of the aft cockpit
- can have walk through stern - makes getting on and off from the pontoon easy if you've berthed stern in
- fewer shallow steps down to the saloon
- larger saloon
- most often a larger/longer cockpit
- for single aft cabins - much larger cockpit locker
- bigger cockpit drains
- when berthing you are standing at one end of the vessel - so you can see all the vessel without moving your head around much.

There is much talk of cockpit tents and using the whole length of the boat for centre cockpits .... well - our aft cockpit has a large cockpit tent that is up now and we also use the whole length of the boat - so that's a bit of a mute point.

Good points- centre cockpit has some advantages, so does aft cockpit. This thread was asking about the advantages of centre cockpits, not a debate about which is superior. When we started to look for a boat I was all for aft cockpit, but we ended up with a centre cockpit because the boat we found was right for us- we are now more than happy living with both the advantages and disadvantages of our centre cockpit boat.

 

[noelex]

One advantage of a centre cockpit not mentioned so far (unless I missed it 6 pages is a lot and its not even an anchor thread )

Is that the design makes large fuel and water tanks easier to incorporate. Therefore CC boats usually have more generous tanks than their AC counterparts.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Another advantage of centre cockpits is dinghies on davits just seem to suit them better. If I were to put davits on my aft cockpit it just wouldn't feel right having the tender 2 feet behind my ears.

 

[noelex]

Another advantage of centre cockpits is dinghies on davits just seem to suit them better. If I were to put davits on my aft cockpit it just wouldn't feel right having the tender 2 feet behind my ears.

On larger CC boats there is sometimes room to store the dingy on the aft deck where its less likely to obscure the view

 

[LadyInBed]

Another advantage of centre cockpits is dinghies on davits just seem to suit them better.

But not if it is a CC Ketch
Though I have thought about strapping the dingy on its side across the back.

 

[noelex]

But not if it is a CC Ketch
Though I have thought about strapping the dingy on its side across the back.

Throw the second mast overboard. It will make a nice home for the fishes and crabs . Then you will have room for the tender.
Only kidding a ketch is a good sail plan for a cruising boat.