Centre cockpit vs aft cockpit

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gilesfordcrush

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I am wondering about the differences between centre and aft cockpit yachts. Have CC boats evolved by virtue of the designers wanting to use the internal space to maximum effect, and create large aft cabins? Or is there a benefit to the characteristics and performance of the boat? It seems that CC boats have a higher cockpit, what are the benefits to this? It must reduce the amount of mainsail area, and perhaps make the crew more seasick?

I'm very interested to know what the differences are, and what compromises exist between the two different setups of centre and aft cockpits.
 
We have had both although I will admit the aft cockpit was a 45ft DuFour and the centre cockpit a 54ft Moody and there will be differences with smaller yachts of each type.

Our experience is that with the aft cockpit, we got very wet in bad weather (Force 8, https://mariadz.com/2012/06/04/the-return-from-dunkirk-part-2-of-3-pan-pan/ ). We have had excellent experiences with the centre cockpit in Force 7s being completely dry, feeling safer and not sea sick because you are near the centre of the boat. we have no doubt that we would be comfortable in heavier seas although some of that will be the difference with a heavier boat designed for longer voyages, We have a lot of sail area on the Moody, cant imagine we have lost any sail area because of the centre cockpit configuration. I think it is a little different with small CC boats and have heard these can be wet too.

I think it really depends on what you want to do with the boat. For med, stern-to mooring, I don't think you can beat a nice big aft cockpit and we felt the DuFour design (like others) was perfect for the med. For long distance blue-water sailing where you are anchoring a lot, I think the centre cockpit works well. The final point for me is the size of the cockpit which is substantially larger on an aft cockpit for the length - it depends how much entertaining you are going to do rather than hard sailing....
 
I think if you look at the early CC boats, the aft cabin was a totally separate cabin with it's own access from the cockpit/ Such boats had good shelter in the cockpit.

As designs developed, walkways from saloon to aft cabin developed necessitating that cockpits go higher and higher, pushing booms up. Great from a visibility perspective but rolling motion can be worse ( you're higher up) but pitching can be better. Height makes them dryer but being further forward makes them wetter so think it balances out.

I suspect CC are generally worse sailors than AC but I don't think that is BECAUSE of the CC. More that a CC design is better for living aboard with more internal space so the other design / spend priorities that people want are focussed on living, not sailing. So smaller, more bullet proof rigs, emphasis on ease of handling, e.g. roller mains not traditional. Shallow keel rather than Deep fin,
 
I had always been a bit sniffy about centre cockpit boats but when we wanted to buy a larger boat than the previous 32 footer we ended up purchasing a centre cockpit boat - why? our criteria were as follows:
1) max length 36 foot
2) must have a decent second cabin ( most sailing is done by two couples sharing, indeed the boat is owned by the two couples)
3) must have a large cockpit locker and plenty of storage
4) ideally would have two heads

Only a centre cockpit boat could meet these criteria.

Yes you may be right about smaller mainsail and may not sail as well as a similiar length 36 foot aft cockpit, but let's face it much of the time is spent motoring or motor sailing! Having two decent sized cabins for sleeping more than makes up for any shortfalls.
 
As ever it depends on what your priorities are and how you intend using the boat. Size is important and arguably there are too many compromises on a boat under 36-38' and centre cockpits really start to make sense over 40'.

However they have gone out of fashion for new boats in the smaller sizes for two main reasons. Firstly they were almost exclusively a UK and Scandinavian "thing" where for a variety of reasons accommodation in a given length was important and outdoor living low on the list of priorities. So very few under 40' CC boats have been built since around 2000, when demand, and therefore production moved to warm weather markets where large cockpits and access off the stern were far more important. Notionally accommodation was retained by increasing volume in the aft end and putting cabins under the cockpit. Not as nice as some aft cabins in CC boats but adequate if all you want to do is sleep.

CC boats have remained popular for long distance cruising because of the greater space for storage and the more kindly motion overall (although not necessarily in some high cockpits). Some builders like Bavaria, Dufour and Beneteau offered both AC and CC versions of essentially the same designs in the early 2000's but they slowly died out as the AC took over demand. Many of the Scandinavian builders such as HR still offer under 40' AC models as it suits their small domestic market, but of course they come at a price!
 
As an AC boat owner before I don't think when looking at a new boat our choice was driven so much by the cockpit initially as by cabin configuration. While you can obviously have AC boats with a large aft cabin eg one of the Jeaneau DS versions it is harder I suspect to find a CC version with 2 stern cabins as they mainly seem to have large stern cabins with walk through or as has been said on older vessels a cockpit walk through eg Westerlies and Warriors etc.

The advantages of each type do vary with size so ideally you might compare 2 makes of same size eg a Moody or Bavaria to identify .
Advantages of AC might be argued as larger cockpit and space for a proper table ; Clearer view astern ; larger lazarrette lockers (but if you make the boat long enough you can have these on CC) , larger main saloon ( some CC boats seem compacted in middle); better sailing ability for given length/make; lower freeboard (shorter CC boats always look rather squat); easier to enter dinghy ?

Once though you reach say 45plus foot some of these advantages fall away as you will anyway probably in i mast market with smaller mains anyway (and maybe powered winches etc) but in the 30-40 foot range ideally to consider accommodation aspects a look at Najad and Hallbergs at SBO to compare with the AC offerings might assist. If I could justify price of say a new CC Rassy it being a CC would put me off though if I wanted a large stern cabin.
 
CC boats tend to have smaller saloons. The area where you spend most of your waking time below decks, how much time do you spend in your bedroom, once you're awake? That said I know of two couples, their main acommodation priority was being able to sit up and drink tea in bed ...
 
We've had two of each and I wouldn't go back to aft cockpit. Large aft cabin is brilliant for living aboard and with 2 heads, visitors in the forecabin have their own en-suite. Sailing in lively conditions is much drier and, being near the C of Pitch, my wife no longer suffers from sea sickness. Height of CC obviously varies between makes, we had a look at a Westerly (can't remember the model) which was a bit like being on top of a double decker bus.
 
Daydream believer said:
What is it like berthing?Is it easy getting from cockpit to side deck compared to an aft cockpit. Looking at centre cockpits they seem harder for the helmsman in short handed crews
Click to expand...

Depends on the boat but we have no trouble, all lines led aft so no need to leave the cockpit except for berthing which is easy with centre cleat. SWMBO just steps off the step fender which is by the shrouds.
 
I don't particularly like centre cockpits, especially those which are too far forward and too high up like my mate's Island Packet. I can see the reason for it in boats above a certain size, which for me would be around 40'. Most of the HR CCs are quite moderate, the older 36 being typical.

I'm not convinced by the argument that CCs are drier, when boat size and character are taken into account. I remember a passage downwind in the tail end of a gale in my 26' Mystere in company with a Moody 33 of Primrose design. We stormed along under jib and didn't ship a drop, while the Moody regularly shipped water into the cockpit.
 
I currently have one of each (Contessa 32 and Westerly Sealord) so can offer a few thoughts.

In terms of pleasure of sailing I prefer the aft cockpit configuration as I am closer to the water and the lower sleeker boat means the CoE is lower - meaning less heeling or more sail for a given winds strength. While the Co32 is particularly wet compared to modern designs I have sailed on enough aft-cockpit boats to prefer the experience of sailing in that configuration.

However . . . for longer-term cruising for a couple having a CC and large aft cabin is a real benefit because the aft cabin is big and comfortable enough to be an every-day usable space rather than just somewhere to sleep. If you want some personal space from your cruising companion the aft cabin is a nice place to be. Height of the cockpit can be an issue for some CC boats but the Sealord I have is not excessively high although I have to duck to walk though to the aft cabin - a compromise I am happy to make (I'm just over 6'). I did look at slightly smaller CC boats but under about 35-36' they look to tall for their given length. The Sealord, in comparison, is well proportioned to my eyes and I do not feel particularly high-up.
 
GrahamM376 said:
We've had two of each and I wouldn't go back to aft cockpit. Large aft cabin is brilliant for living aboard and with 2 heads, visitors in the forecabin have their own en-suite. Sailing in lively conditions is much drier and, being near the C of Pitch, my wife no longer suffers from sea sickness. Height of CC obviously varies between makes, we had a look at a Westerly (can't remember the model) which was a bit like being on top of a double decker bus.
Click to expand...

Like you I would not go back to an aft cockpit in 40ft and above. However there are many CC boats I would NOT have as the cockpits are just too high up and shallow with low seat backs in the interests of space below.

I have had 2 CC cockpit boats - the Trintella 4a (Victory 40) and currently - Westerly Oceanlord. Both have deep cockpits in which you feel absolutely safe, and they are quite large too.

Other CC boats I have sailed - the smaller Westerlies and indeed even the up to the Moody 44 range size, I have felt very uncomfortable with the height you are at especially when healed. The worst was a Moody 36 - this model http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/yacht-reviews/our-verdict-on-the-moody-36-31155 in which you felt you would fall into the sea if your didnt hang on.

I have chartered various 40 AC in the Med, but I do not like the lack of through ventilation in the aft cabins in hot weather. They effectively have all the ventilation at the forward end of the cabin with little or no circulation throughout the cabin. Centre cockpit - and especially the Oceanlord - are extremely well ventilated.

Stern to handling. Providing you have a remote anchor control in the cockpit, you can do everything yourself if you really have to - I really don't see it as being a disadvantage.

In my experience, we seem to miss all the spray that comes over the boat - may just be the Oceanlord though which is a really dry boat.

Loss of Sail Area - more a function of the in-mast furling. So convenient but so a loss for sailing performance.
 
Daydream believer said:
What is it like berthing?Is it easy getting from cockpit to side deck compared to an aft cockpit. Looking at centre cockpits they seem harder for the helmsman in short handed crews
Click to expand...

One of the advantages with the larger CC's I think is that being more central it's easier park in so much as you're closer to both ends.

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Our Moody 36 is our first centre cockpit boat and the only thing I've found I don't much like is the narrow cockpit seats for lying down on - too narrow for my shoulders.

Apart from that we are very, very happy. I was concerned about the precarious cockpit comments prior to sailing her but have not found this to be an issue at all. Maybe this is because we sail her pretty upright as excessive heeling is a killer for upwind progress.

The first sail in open water we had in her was a horrible quartering sea that got worse with the clapotis off some cliffs but we never felt exposed with all the rolling around - the 55 footer that passed us on the way into port remarked on what an awful sea it was- and they'd sailed from Oregon..

We do find she is great to live aboard as well as being comfortable in any kind of sea we are likely to find ourselves in.
 
Perhaps a minor point but in the med in the summer most of the time awake is spent in the cockpit, one of the criteria we have is the ability to lay full length in the cockpit. We can do that on our current 33 foot aft cockpit boat but we found you had to go quite a lot bigger to be able to do it on most C.C. boats. Having said that for some this ability to lie down in the cockpit is not important so horses for courses.
 
The one thing I've found on CC boats is that actually getting in and out of the cockpit can be a struggle. Stepping down into the cockpit, especially needing to duck under a bimini, can be a bit trying and I don't think I'd like to be doing it either in a hurry when berthing or when the boat was healed.
I've always liked the spacious aft cabins that the layout leads to but feel that the access problems outweigh that advantage on the sub 40 foot boats.
The cockpits also tend to be a bit on the small side for use in the hotter parts of the world, where you tend to spend most of the time there rather than down below.
But, like all things boaty, most of these choices are down to personal preference. Mine is for an aft cockpit boat, others will prefer a centre cockpit.
 
I recently bought a Dehler 86 which has a slightly unusual layout. No fore cabin, large (for a 28 foot boat) saloon which converts to two small double berths and a separate aft cockpit with two single berths.

I was previously not a fan of aft cockpit boats but am happy with the Dehler for the following reasons:
- saloon is huge for the size of boat
- converted double bunks are a much better place to sleep than a cramped fore cabin
- aft cabin is used as storage 98% of the time therefore main accommodation is entirely free of clutter. When we have sleep over quests on board we empty the aft cabin of spare sails ect
- cockpit is no higher than a aft cockpit, seats six and is more protected

Photo of my actual boat: http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/dehler-duetta-86as/duetta-86as.htm

The only down side I have discovered is that the cockpit is a bit narrow although that is really a design decision presumably to give a walk around, single height main deck. I would have preferred a wider cockpit and sacrificed the walk around deck I think.
 
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I think most of the pros and cons for each have been well made. I currently have a 44' CC and live on it most of the time, winter and summer, in the Med. Before I had a 33' CC in the UK and before that 24' and 35' aft cockpits.
My present boat is fantastic in most respects and a great compromise. Sails well, dry, great visibility all round for mooring, easy to handle. In the summer I envy the huge cockpits of the modern AC boats but I can lie down comfortably in mine. Access from the side decks is easy under the bimini but not as easy as AC. When stern to on town quays we have much more provacy than AC during the day but at night feel a bit close to any action in the cabin.
During the winter when life is indoors more there is no contest. My saloon is big and airy but the aft cabin is a great place. Central double bed you can walk around. Comfortable seats. Light all around and loads of storage in drawers, wardrobes and dressing table. 2 cabins forward with their own heads are perfect for visitors and child.
I think you have to think through your own priorities and try out a boat of the size you want to make your own mind up
 
I too have a Moody 36 as a first CC boat, bought last year. I suspect it's our boat that prompted the OP's question as he looked over ours a few weeks ago.
SWMBO loves it for the accommodation, and increased feeling of security at sea. Berthing with the usual two of us on board needs to be thought out and pre-briefed much more, the one on the helm being not in reach of any cleats, plus extra windage on the hull. Overall I don't regret going for it but I'm not sure what the next boat might look like, apart from smaller!
 
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