Centre Cockpit, Moody etc... Diesel Heater, right or wrong location.

[tinker13]

Hi, I have a Webasto diesel heater fitted in the engine room under the centre cockpit on our Moody.
The boats heater has been installed in that location from new for nearly 30 years (Now on 3rd heater unit).

The exhaust pipe runs out under the floor boards and exits at the transom, with 2 hot air ducts fore and aft.

I'm now being told this is complete wrong by 2 very well know firms / engineers on the south coast.
Both have said they would rip it all out and start again, then going on to quote about £2k-£3k for the work.

Forget the price, the guys gotta make a living, my issue is moving the heater to a new location as suggested since there's no room for 110mm warm air ducting to run from the lazzeret forward, but room for a 25mm exhaust to run aft.

I'm more interested in where do other centre cockpit owners have their heaters installed and if it's in the engine room, where does the exhaust run / exit?

Thanks

 

[coopec]

Maybe something here?

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f55/installing-diesel-heater-in-centre-cockpit-yacht-203913.html

 

[sailaboutvic]

Can't help you with a heater but our AC unit Which also act as a heater is under our chart table in our 42 C Moody.
You could try and post on the MOA if your a member.
On the other hand if your works ok why both move it .

 

[Deleted member 36384]

In my centre cockpit the heater is under the aft cabin bunk with exhaust on the quarter, high up and hot air trunking running along one side with outlet branches. Combustion air intake is from the same space via a baffle device as is heating air. The space is fitted with an automatic fire extinguisher with CO detector in the aft cabin. It has been checked twice now by 2 surveyors, pre purchase and 10 year survey with no comment, except change the plastic fuel pipe for copper pipe.

Why do they say it is wrong?

 

[lw395]

In my centre cockpit the heater is under the aft cabin bunk with exhaust on the quarter, high up and hot air trunking running along one side with outlet branches. Combustion air intake is from the same space via a baffle device as is heating air. The space is fitted with an automatic fire extinguisher with CO detector in the aft cabin. It has been checked twice now by 2 surveyors, pre purchase and 10 year survey with no comment, except change the plastic fuel pipe for copper pipe.

Why do they say it is wrong?

Firstly you should tell them that copper pipe is unsuitable for diesel.

I imagine the issue with having the heater in the middle of the boat would be the length of the exhaust.
This can cause two problems, firstly excess back pressure restricting air flow and secondly condensation.
Most boat eberbasto installations are intended to exhaust the water created by combustion as steam. If the steam condenses, it may collect inthe exhaust hose and cause corrosion or even block gas flow.
Condensate leaking into the bilge would be smelly and corrosive. Condensate running down the transom paintwork will stain.
For this reason it's normal to lag the exhaust and keep the run as short as possible.

 

[Kelpie]

On our CC Moody, the heater is in the engine room but the exhaust is on the outside of the cockpit coaming. Seems to work well, the only downside that I can think of is slightly more noise in the cockpit.

 

[stranded]

Our Webasto (Sunbeam 44) is fixed to the hull at about head height in a locker behind the starboard mid ships shower. Lagged exhaust is about 0.5m long to highish on topsides. No gelcoat staining from exhaust but do need to check where fenders are before turning on. Seems to keep working.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Our centre cockpit Westerley Sealord has the heater in the cockpit locker (It’s mounted high up on the f’wd bulkhead). The exhaust is short and comes out of the cockpit coaming.

 

[Little Five]

On my Coaster 33 the heater is mounted on the stb side in the engine room with the exhaust on the stb side below the wheelhouse access point so the exhaust run is very short, approx 24 inches. I have never had any problems and it works great.

 

[RIBW]

Hi, I have a Webasto diesel heater fitted in the engine room under the centre cockpit on our Moody.
The boats heater has been installed in that location from new for nearly 30 years (Now on 3rd heater unit).

The exhaust pipe runs out under the floor boards and exits at the transom, with 2 hot air ducts fore and aft.

I'm now being told this is complete wrong by 2 very well know firms / engineers on the south coast.
Both have said they would rip it all out and start again, then going on to quote about £2k-£3k for the work.

Forget the price, the guys gotta make a living, my issue is moving the heater to a new location as suggested since there's no room for 110mm warm air ducting to run from the lazzeret forward, but room for a 25mm exhaust to run aft.

I'm more interested in where do other centre cockpit owners have their heaters installed and if it's in the engine room, where does the exhaust run / exit?

Thanks

Hi,
I don't have a centre cockpit but some experience of moving a heater and the ensuing ducting problems. Your post raises a few questions.
The obvious question is what reasons did the two suppliers give for saying what you have is "completely wrong"?
It sounds like they suggesting moving the heater position aft?
If the heater is moved aft, you are most likely correct in stating the hot air duct going forward will have to increase in size (if any reasonable heat is to reach the fwd cabin). [My heater is at the stern and can only deliver ~25% of its output to the fwd cabin given the OEM ducts, without causing overheat at the heater hot air outlet - this heat is not really adequate].
In your case, I'd need good hard engineering or safety reasons before moving the heater.
Good luck
Bob

 

[pvb]

No need to move the heater; the location in the engine room is fine in a centre cockpit boat. My old HR352 had the heater factory-fitted by HR in the engine room, with ducting going aft to the aft cabin and forwards to the rest of the boat. The exhaust was lagged and enclosed in air duct tubing and went up through the cockpit locker, had a gooseneck in the coaming, then went down to an exhaust fitting about a foot below the toerail. It all worked fine. The fresh air intake for the heater was ducted from the cockpit locker.

 

[pcatterall]

Hi, I have a Webasto diesel heater fitted in the engine room under the centre cockpit on our Moody.
The boats heater has been installed in that location from new for nearly 30 years (Now on 3rd heater unit).

The exhaust pipe runs out under the floor boards and exits at the transom, with 2 hot air ducts fore and aft.


I'm now being told this is complete wrong by 2 very well know firms / engineers on the south coast.
Both have said they would rip it all out and start again, then going on to quote about £2k-£3k for the work.

Forget the price, the guys gotta make a living, my issue is moving the heater to a new location as suggested since there's no room for 110mm warm air ducting to run from the lazzeret forward, but room for a 25mm exhaust to run aft.

I'm more interested in where do other centre cockpit owners have their heaters installed and if it's in the engine room, where does the exhaust run / exit?

Thanks

The advice sounds a bit strange though I would like to understand just what they don't like and the proposed changes.
I rarely fit heaters to boats only in camper vans which are much simpler to plan.
The main issues on a boat are getting the exhaust out and the warm air to where it is required. Combustion air intake, Fuel runs and access may also figure.
In your case if it works Ok where it is with no issues or safety concerns then why do they want to change things? The long exhaust run could be an issue, if its longer than specified then the heater may not run well, many heaters are fitted near the stern to simplify the exhaust fitting but then there is a considerable problem getting warm air ducting through the boat to the 'main cabins' up front.
In terms of pushing the warm around the boat then being able to use a central position sounds great.
Good if you can ask your experts the reasoning behind their suggestion.
​

 

[Richard10002]

Hi, I have a Webasto diesel heater fitted in the engine room under the centre cockpit on our Moody.
The boats heater has been installed in that location from new for nearly 30 years (Now on 3rd heater unit).

The exhaust pipe runs out under the floor boards and exits at the transom, with 2 hot air ducts fore and aft.

I'm now being told this is complete wrong by 2 very well know firms / engineers on the south coast.
Both have said they would rip it all out and start again, then going on to quote about £2k-£3k for the work.

Forget the price, the guys gotta make a living, my issue is moving the heater to a new location as suggested since there's no room for 110mm warm air ducting to run from the lazzeret forward, but room for a 25mm exhaust to run aft.

I'm more interested in where do other centre cockpit owners have their heaters installed and if it's in the engine room, where does the exhaust run / exit?

Thanks

On my Moody 44, the Eberspacher unit was under the double bed to the rear of the boat, along with the batteries and steering gear.

What reason are they giving for having to move it from the engine room for 3 thousand quid?

 

[Graham376]

On the 376, mine is in the large cockpit locker with the air inlet and the exhaust goes out through the coaming. If yours has worked fine in its current location, why is a move necessary?

 

[pcatterall]

On the 376, mine is in the large cockpit locker with the air inlet and the exhaust goes out through the coaming. If yours has worked fine in its current location, why is a move necessary?

The accepted outlet is usually the transom. Coaming solutions can be subject to fumes coming back and burning accidents. Having said that other solutions have worked well once the down sides are accepted. IE side of hull; fumes burning fenders, need for a bung when heeled?! ( remembering to take it out!) Coach roof solutions ; fumes and burn hazards etc.
I would not install such an odd system on a customers boat but might on my own!!

 

[Graham376]

The accepted outlet is usually the transom. Coaming solutions can be subject to fumes coming back and burning accidents. Having said that other solutions have worked well once the down sides are accepted. IE side of hull; fumes burning fenders, need for a bung when heeled?! ( remembering to take it out!) Coach roof solutions ; fumes and burn hazards etc.
I would not install such an odd system on a customers boat but might on my own!!

On a 376, it's a hell of a long way to run an exhaust from the cockpit locker to the transom and isn't viable for other reasons. Fumes can obviously blow into the cockpit in certain wind directions from a coaming (or a transom) exhaust but highly unlikely to burn anyone on the side deck and we're usually down below anyway if the heater is running.

 

[Pasarell]

On my old M00dy 33 Mk1 the heater was in the cockpit locker tucked right up in the coaming. Exhaust ran aft, through the lockers in the aft cabin and out through the transom. No problem with any of it and no staining on the transom.
My present Moody 44 has the heater under the aft cabin bed as fitted new by Marine Projects. The exhaust runs out through the transom via the lazarette locker. Trunking for hot air runs behind furniture along the port side of the boat. Again all works well.

 

[PetiteFleur]

On my Moody 33mk2, fitted last year, a Chinese heater in the rear cabin over the steering gear. The exhaust is very short, with a gooseneck, with outlets in the rear cabin, salon, heads and forecabin. So far it's has worked fine, certainly keeps the boat nice and warm. Others have fitted the heater high up in centre cockpit locker, exhaust through the coaming.
Why is copper pipe wrong for diesel?? I use road diesel and changed the supplied plastic pipe for copper tubing of the same size as I understood that plastic pipe was not acceptable. I also have copper for the fuel line from tank to primary engine filter.
As mentioned the MOA website is very useful.

 

[pcatterall]

On a 376, it's a hell of a long way to run an exhaust from the cockpit locker to the transom and isn't viable for other reasons. Fumes can obviously blow into the cockpit in certain wind directions from a coaming (or a transom) exhaust but highly unlikely to burn anyone on the side deck and we're usually down below anyway if the heater is running.

Yes, agreed 100% it is horses for courses!

 

[tinker13]

Wow, great response and thanks, some great comments.

The issue stated by said installers was the distance the exhaust currently runs from the engine room (under centre cockpit) to the transom.

We only have 2 outlets, one in the aft cabin and one in the main salon which is fine. I understand the principle behind fitting it in the aft transom locker (or under the bed) but there simply isn't a clear run for a warm air duct (110mm) going forward's. In its currant location, there is however room through the bilge for an exhaust. This is how it was originally fitted by Moody. The engineers have all said they would never do this and it is potentially unsafe as the exhaust will be making contact in places and it's too far for an exhaust run anyway. Both said that they would approach the job as a new install, including a much more powerful heater due to the distance the warm air needs to be pushed forward etc etc.... hence the hefty quote.

So, I'm going to ignore all that and rebuild the system where and as it is. New ducting and new exhaust, serviced heater. I've explored the option of going up or out the side, but it's just not practical and would involve a lot of remodelling of the interior. I guess the guys who did the original fit thought all this through too and came to the same conclusion.

Thanks again for all the advice and suggestions... great site !