Centaur re-engine: Beta or Nanni?

[Iliade]

The time has come for our venerable MD2B to be retired, rather than contiue sending more good money after bad. £130 for a pair of head gaskets! I ask you!

So, I have trawled this and other forums and have pretty much made up my mind on the Beta 20hp, but still have a few questions:

Why should we choose Nanni or Beta? Are Nanni better marinised? Is the local nature of Beta a real advantage or a red herring? Of today's (16-25hp) models does one really idle better than the other? Does blue float your boat or is red simply the only true way?

Given that the existing MD2B is possibly excessive for a 26' boat, would you opt for a 16hp or a 20hp, or something else altogether? Like almost everyone else here, we encounter a lot of headlands, strong winds & tides in our cruising area (Shoreham, Cherbourg, Channel Isles & @2012 Isles of Scilly) and sometimes have to make it to work the next day.

If you have re-engined a Centaur or similar in the last few years what was the cost in parts? It looks like a very simple re-engine, but does the MD2B prop suit any of the Kubotas? Was the shaft too long or too short?

Can the fuel tank of a Centaur be replaced without removing the engine? (Mine is ok now, but...)

How good is the servicability of your Beta/Nanni in the Centaur's engine bay? Any tips to make it easier? e.g. cut access panel somewhere now while bay is empty etc.

Any weaknesses of the engines?

Anything you wish you had specified when you ordered the motor, or were glad you did?

Thanks for reading this far!

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

Have you seen this?http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/27-80hp-diesel-marine-boat-engine-NEW-warranty-/200367719508?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_Boat_Engines_EngineParts_SM&hash=item2ea6d8c454

I have no information on these engines but I am sure some others here will. It will be better to have an engine big enough to go happily against tides and strong winds; personally, I would not like anything less than 25hp. I am biased towards Yanmars, however, they are expensive to buy and parts are expensive too.

Also, have you considered overhauling your existing Volvo? it may only cost you £1000 and you will have a "new" engine; thus avoiding the need for new engine feet, bushes, etc, etc which can cost a lot of money.

 

[colvic987]

Have you seen this?http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/27-80hp-diesel-marine-boat-engine-NEW-warranty-/200367719508?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_Boat_Engines_EngineParts_SM&hash=item2ea6d8c454

I have no information on these engines but I am sure some others here will. It will be better to have an engine big enough to go happily against tides and strong winds; personally, I would not like anything less than 25hp. I am biased towards Yanmars, however, they are expensive to buy and parts are expensive too.

Also, have you considered overhauling your existing Volvo? it may only cost you £1000 and you will have a "new" engine; thus avoiding the need for new engine feet, bushes, etc, etc which can cost a lot of money.

I doubt you would be able to get all the parts for a obselete engine to recondition it, and i am sure it would cost you more than £1000 to get it done properly by a mechanic, and no guarantee of satisfaction after paying out on a 35 year old engine. Although they are overengineered more than a modern engine would be.
Cut your losses and go for new, you would have better resale value in your boat if you went that way. an old reconditioned engine is still an old engine in a buyers eyes.....but new could swing a deal. (not that your looking on selling anyway)..

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

I have had both Beta and Nanni engines from new. Both work and have good backup service from their UK agents.

Fitting an engine in a tight space implies that access to filters, impellers etc is going to be an important part of whether you are a happy owner or not.

I would look at both engines and see which works best from that standpoint. Sometimes things are easily movable before they ship to you. On my Nanni, for example, I have both oil and fuel filters in a slightly different position from standard to make my life easier.

Talk to the agents and see if they can help you.

 

[RichardTaylor]

From a power point of view, our previous boat was a Westerly Griffon with a 13hp which was underpowered. Later Griffons were fitted with a 20hp Bukh. Therefore I would be looking at around 20hp.

As for the "eBay" engine above, there are no references to the origin of the engine, so would be sceptical as to whether it is a Chinese "disposable" engine with little support (certainly in 5 to 10 years time) and therefore the cheap purchase price may be false economy. I may of course be doing the engine an injustice?

 

[john_morris_uk]

From a power point of view, our previous boat was a Westerly Griffon with a 13hp which was underpowered. Later Griffons were fitted with a 20hp Bukh. Therefore I would be looking at around 20hp.

As for the "eBay" engine above, there are no references to the origin of the engine, so would be sceptical as to whether it is a Chinese "disposable" engine with little support (certainly in 5 to 10 years time) and therefore the cheap purchase price may be false economy. I may of course be doing the engine an injustice?

I thought that I saw in the ebay listing they say that it was a Kubota engine?

I have had both Beta and Nanni engines from new. Both work and have good backup service from their UK agents.

Fitting an engine in a tight space implies that access to filters, impellers etc is going to be an important part of whether you are a happy owner or not.

I would look at both engines and see which works best from that standpoint. Sometimes things are easily movable before they ship to you. On my Nanni, for example, I have both oil and fuel filters in a slightly different position from standard to make my life easier.

Talk to the agents and see if they can help you.

I agree wholeheartedly. Both Nanni and Beta and based on the same Kubota engine. Both agents/dealers offer excellent support. Last time I re-engined we went with the Nanni, but the decision was all about what would fit best and give best access to the ancillaries. The prices (after haggling) were almost identical.

 

[Aeolus]

If you have the engine installed, then one advantage of Beta would the high quality work that Mick West does (the Beta agent in Brighton marina).

No connection to Mick West except as a very satisfied customer (they installed my new Beta 20hp late last year).

Nanni does not benefit from a high-quality local agent.

 

[Babylon]

Is the Nanni designed for ease of self-servicing (as is the Beta)?

I went for a Beta 25 in my heavy 27 footer, but other owners felt that the the 20 was big enough. There's only a marginal difference is fuel consumption. (The original was a Bukh DV20, which actually delivered more HP at the gearbox than its 20HP description indicated, hence my decision to go for the new 25. Anything less than 18-20 on my boat would be classed as an auxiliary.)

Don't muck about. If you're going to re-engine, then get a new modern prop (fixed or feathering) which is correctly sized to suit the new donk. It'll make a proper difference to the efficient delivery of power, etc.

You might, if its of the same vintage, also wish to look at everthing else between the gearbox and the prop: the coupling, shaft, stern-gland, stern-tube, etc. It might cost you more than you're hoping to spend now, but could save you in the longer-term?

If altering the feet mounts is an issue that you cannot resolve by making adjustments to your bearers, etc, then Beta will do a custom feet mounting for you.

If you can wait, then go for the boat show discount.

HTH

 

[john_morris_uk]

Is the Nanni designed for ease of self-servicing (as is the Beta)? Yes - complete with oil pump out hand pump etc

If altering the feet mounts is an issue that you cannot resolve by making adjustments to your bearers, etc, then Beta will do a custom feet mounting for you. Talk to the Nanni dealer as well - I believe they will do the same.

If you can wait, then go for the boat show discount. Always a good idea.

HTH

I didn't think it would be long before someone claimed Beta was the bees knees. The truth is that both Nanni and Beta are very good - and based on exactly the same engine. My advice to the OP is to fit the one that suits your installation needs and allows you to get to the ancillaries and service points.

 

[ianat182]

I installed a Volvo 2010n our Westerly Tiger without space problems in place of the MD1B,the engine being lighter and shorter did need some adjustment to avoid a new prop shaft, we fitted some angle iron to the existing bearing positions for the new and aligned the shaft. The gearbox ratio and the revs of the new were higher than the original engine's,though we tried the engine out with the old prop, a three blade fixed one, we could not achieve the revs specified 2500cruising and 3200-3600 so went to Hamble Propellors for the new one suit G/box ratio,power and boat length, they produced an excellent 3 blade fixed to match the details.
Access to all existing piping and filters and tank was as before,if funding had been possible I'd have changed the fuel tank(10years old) to a stainless one. a Vetus watertrap on the exhaust was something added, together with new exhaust hose. our installation including engine and accessories(instrument panel and loom and gauges came to roughly £4K all done by ourselves. Of course genuine spares for the new engine will still be at rip-off prices from the main dealers but the dealer in Hemel Hemstead is cheaper and very good with any enquiries.


ianat182

 

[Tranona]

Went through the same decision myself and plumped for a Nanni. Very difficult choice, but the Nanni does seem to have a better heat exchanger - you hear lots of comments on short anode life and difficulty in cleaning the composite stack of the Beta, but that may well be because there are more in use. There are minor differences in spec - alternator, sump sizes, oil extraction, instrument panel etc., but spec for spec not a lot of difference in price.

There is no problem in installation in a Centaur engine bay. The 20hp 3 cyl engine is smaller in all dimensions that the Volvo. You won't need anything bigger than the 20. The Centaur only had the 23hp engine because there was nothing smaller available until down to 13hp at the time.

Sensible to throw everything in the drive train away. It is all over 30 years old and most of it unsuitable for use with a modern engine. You are spending £6k+ for the whole job plus labour, so best to have everything new rather than save a few pennies on re-using old parts.

Whichever you choose will be a vast improvement over the existing engine, and if you are keeping the boat well worth doing.

 

[onenyala]

Check out Scott at T S Marine. He installed a Beta BZ482 in my 29' Kingscruiser in 2005.
The installation was perfect as has been the engine. All sevice components easily accessible.
Just a satified customer

 

[ianc1200]

Had two very bad experiences with Nanni/Peachments. My friend with a Beta has had problems, but Beta appear to respond very quickly to resolve issues.

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

My old Centaur (CR1279) used to have a Volvo MD6a. When it stopped firing on one cylinder the cost of the bits that needed to be changed was more than £850...fourteen years ago. There were some parts that were, even then, unobtainable. I reasoned that by the time I added the cost of the mechanic I was looking at half the cost of a new engine. Simple decision then.

I looked at the Beta, the Nanni and the Lombardini. One of the things that put me off the Nanni - apart from the obnoxious agent - was the heat-exchanger set-up. At that time this was mounted on M6 studs and I had a friend who had two fail within three years. Worse than this is the fact that you need space to remove the exchanger sideways until it clears the studs. Such a space to port just was not there. OTOH that of the Lombardini used M8 bolts, which are stronger and require less space to remove the heat exchanger.

The Beta's agent at that time had some crazy prices because of his overheads. I therefore went for a 3-cylinder Lombardini.

This was rated at 25hp continuous while the Nanni was rated at 27hp "automotive power", in other words intermittent. New engine bed was not a problem. I removed the old Volvo angles and simply replaced them with two lengths of mild steel angle (IIRC I used 3" x 3" x 3/8") bolted to the existing bearers; nothing to it except careful measuring, marking and drilling. I even aligned these before the engine was delivered by using a simple plywood jig.

I did not regret the installation of a new engine rather than adding spares at today's prices to a lump of metal that was thirty years old. The peace of mind that a new engine gives can not be overstated. I eventually got a good price for my Centaur when I sold her last February.

My present restoration project boat is a Centurion 32 that still has the original MD2B. So far, this is still giving good service. However, when the time comes and it starts giving trouble, the decision to replace with a new engine will not be a difficult one.

Good luck with your new Beta. If I were you I'd also try to locate a Kubota agent and source my spares from there; chances are that they will not be at 'marine ' prices.

 

[30boat]

The Beta 20 should meet your needs.I can't speak for the Nanni but the Beta brilliant engine that it is could have a better heat exchanger.I feel the one fitted is on the small side.The tube stack needs to be cleaned every year,not a difficult job but still needs to be done.The anode wastes very quickly and the remains tend to clog the heat exchanger.

 

[Burnham Bob]

I've got a beta. great engine. however, I agree with other posts, its the way the engine fits that you need to look at. my beta 14 only just fits in and it's a real pain to access the rear of the heater exchanger stack to clean it. maybe the nanni is better i don't know which looks the easiest to work on in your boat?

 

[wilkinsonsails]

We fitted a Nanni, as it went it the hole better with bed mods as listed earlier.
It has transformed our cruising,motoring home is not a problem now . Now 7 yrs on only recent trouble has been the exhaust bend where water in ,anode not replaced frequently enough and it corroded through last year .Will try not to let that happen again.
Cindy

 

[pvb]

The Beta 20 should meet your needs.I can't speak for the Nanni but the Beta brilliant engine that it is could have a better heat exchanger.I feel the one fitted is on the small side.The tube stack needs to be cleaned every year,not a difficult job but still needs to be done.The anode wastes very quickly and the remains tend to clog the heat exchanger.

Every year??? That would immediately make me look for an alternative make.

 

[Iliade]

Thank you all for your input.

I will be heading down to Mike whatsisface at Brighton on monday morning to order the new Beta 20.

I had a brief dekko at a similar installation today, given that I was considering replacing the boat rather than just the engine, and I was surprised at how small the Beta was (clearly it is quite a while since I worked as a marine engineer, I couldn't find the holes for the starter cartridges :0) However, I did notice that the alternator was rather petite, so the optional bigger one, if still an option, is not really optional...

P.S. I think I need to set up an anode re-casting service.

 

[30boat]

Every year??? That would immediately make me look for an alternative make.

That's why I say the engine would benefit from a larger heat exchanger.It's not hard to clean but it's a chore nonetheless.