CE mark and importing a boat

[seanfoster]

If I imported a yacht from the US I understand that I need to pay VAT on entry to the EU and also it must have CE certification.

My question is does the CE apply to all boats imported or is there an exemption if it is over a certain age?

Any help would be appreciated.

Added to my post:

I've just had a good search through and although there are lots of threads about this it still seems confusing, I have seen that a craft is exempt from RCD if built before 1998, is that the same for CE?
If I was to import a boat it most likely would be a european model anyway, does it make a difference if it was built in europe or the states?

 

[Tranona]

Just go to the RYA site and you will get chapter and verse on the subject. The pre 1998 rule applies to boats built in or "in service" in the EU (Strictly the EEA) in 1998. So if the boat was built in the UK before that date, exported to the US and then re-imported it may be exempt.

To get a CE mark a boat must comply with the RCD. Usually the sort of yacht that is likely to be imported is a substantial yacht that one would expect to be in category A. To get this it would need to meet the required design characteristics, have a CE mark for all the key equipment, have an operations manual with a huge amount of detail and be certified by an appropriate body. Typically this will cost between £6-10k depending on the amount of information available from the designer/builder and the amount of equipment that needs changing or certifying. It is possible to go for a lower level of certification to be legal, but this may seriously impact on the value and saleability of the yacht.

For many modest (sub £100k) yachts, this cost and hassle plus duty, VAT and shipping costs eat up most of the price difference between US and EU, which is why you see very few US built boats, either new or used in the EU.

There are of course exceptions for example, specific designs or where the boat is being inported as personal effects where it is worth doing. In the recent past before the £ collapsed the price differentials were greater and the prospect more attractive.

A European model, such as a Beneteau, sold in the US would not be exempt because it does not have a CE mark. The basic design may be the same, but it will have US equipment and the importer (you) would have to get the boat individually certified.

These processes are all of course in the interest of free trade - but only within the EEA. They are very effective in creating a closed market!

 

[Elessar]

I have seen that a craft is exempt from RCD if built before 1998, is that the same for CE?

the rcd is the scheme, the CE mark is what you get when you comply with the RCD - ie it's the same thing.

To get a CE mark a boat must comply with the RCD. Usually the sort of yacht that is likely to be imported is a substantial yacht that one would expect to be in category A.

Yep, but you can slap a cat C on it and use it anywhere you like. Depends if you're importing to use (put cat C on and use your brain instead of a label to decide when to put to sea) or importing to sell (cat C only will probably restrict sale value)

 

[seanfoster]

Elessar,

That makes things a lot clearer! So does that mean if the boat was built before 1998 I don't have to do anything other than VAT?

 

[Elessar]

Elessar,

That makes things a lot clearer! So does that mean if the boat was built before 1998 I don't have to do anything other than VAT?

Sadly not as Tranona says it needs to have been in use in the EU at that time to be exempt.

However my cat C cost about £600 for the certification and about £300 in bits (plus my time) to do the bits and pieces needed to pass.

 

[Tranona]

Elessar,

That makes things a lot clearer! So does that mean if the boat was built before 1998 I don't have to do anything other than VAT?

No. Read my longer post. Only if the boat was built in the EEA and exported, or if it was in use in the EU before 1998. If it is a boat built outside the EEA and has never been imported then it requires a CE mark - irrespective of age.

Suggest you contact the RYA with details of the boat you want to import and asked their opinion.

 

[Bobobolinsky]

It rather seems that Malta has waived the import tax on boats and on pleasure boats the VAT has been reduced to 5.4%. So import to Malta and save 12.1% on the VAT and 10% on the import duty. After 12 months, they become free circulating goods and you can British flag, or keep a flag of convenience. The difference in duty will pay for the RCD

 

[ReneJK]

It rather seems that Malta has waived the import tax on boats and on pleasure boats the VAT has been reduced to 5.4%. So import to Malta and save 12.1% on the VAT and 10% on the import duty. After 12 months, they become free circulating goods and you can British flag, or keep a flag of convenience. The difference in duty will pay for the RCD

That sounds very interesting, would you happen to have a link for a webpage to this waiver ?

 

[rivonia]

Just a point of interest. Will the said yacht be your ONLY home ie no proprty to call home in the UK. If so get in touch with Customs and Excise as there would then be NO IMPORT or VAT> We brought a Yacht from Sth Africa 15 years ago and that was the outcome. BUT things may have changed.

Peter

 

[Ubergeekian]

It is possible to go for a lower level of certification to be legal, but this may seriously impact on the value and saleability of the yacht.

Why would it do that? Serious question. Are there really people who care about this? Aren't the survey and equipment list more important?

I've just bought a boat, and while I was looking the presence or absence of a CE mark never even entered my thoughts.

 

[seanfoster]

Why would it do that? Serious question. Are there really people who care about this? Aren't the survey and equipment list more important?

I've just bought a boat, and while I was looking the presence or absence of a CE mark never even entered my thoughts.

Well I was thinking about this too, basically I'm looking for a boat to do some serious cruising on, and there are a few Sigma 41's in the US going for around £35k. I'd probably keep it for upto 10 years, if I sold it then, would anyone really be looking through the paperwork for CE, (VAT for that matter) etc? Bearing in mind it would be a well used 35 (0r so) year old boat?

 

[DownWest]

Lets say you imported your US yacht as a class C. into the EU. A bit later you run it onto reef off, say, the coast of Mozambique. Might your ins.co. have a let out?
A
Another prob, if you decide to rent it out or use for any other commercial use.
Just thoughts.

Any canny buyer would use it to drive the price way down. (as mentioned)

 

[Tranona]

Well I was thinking about this too, basically I'm looking for a boat to do some serious cruising on, and there are a few Sigma 41's in the US going for around £35k. I'd probably keep it for upto 10 years, if I sold it then, would anyone really be looking through the paperwork for CE, (VAT for that matter) etc? Bearing in mind it would be a well used 35 (0r so) year old boat?

In a way, you are right - there are many non VAT paid and non CE marked imported boats circulating in the UK.

It depends on your attitude to the law. Avoiding the legal requirements are both criminal offences and the boat can be seized. As to whether a future buyer would be interested in whether it is legal or not will once again depend on their attitude to the law. Any serious buyer will want to know the history of the boat and if they see a long period of US ownership they will immediately ask if it is legal, because they could lose the boat (although it is your legal responsibility to pay the VAT and CE if appropriate). As legitimate examples of this model are readily available an imported boat is inevitably less valuable.

Do some sums. A £35k boat from UK is near £50k landed and tax paid - even without CE requirement. If there was a huge profit to be made everybody would be re-importing - but they are not. One of the main reasons why such boats are "cheap" in the US is because they are minority interest boats and the cost of getting them to the market where they have value (UK) is too high!

Nice to dream about, though!

 

[Tranona]

You will have spotted the deliberate mistake. I obviously meant a boat from US not UK.

BTW if your "serious cruising" is in the EU then it is important to have everything right - more important than in the UK where there are few if any checks on documentation - although HMRC are not stupid so may well check on you individually if they think you have broken the law.

Every time you enter another EU country your documents will be checked and you will be offering a Bill of Sale that showed you bought the boat in the US. If you have no evidence of VAT payment they would require you to pay VAT. Remember it is the nature of the transacttion that determines if VAT is due and a boat purchased outside the EU/EEA is liable to pay VAT at the first point of entry.

You also need to look very carefully at the boat in the US. They will be 20 years old, probably be equipped differently and reflecting their low value could be seriously neglected.

 

[Saguday]

Or you could buy a US built boat which has a CE mark, they do exist.

There are many good boats in the US and very often they are fastidiously maintained. A US cruiser will often have more equipment on board than an equivalent UK one in my experience. You can get tax relief on loans for boats in the US because they treat it like a second home so they tend to go to town when they fit them out. Also it's an attitude thing, the Americans don't "make do" like we tend to, they spend the money.

VAT issue is the same no matter what you do and don't forget import tax although it's only a few percent (3% IIRC).

Don't forget if you sail the boat across it's usual to stop at the Azores and you'll have to pay your VAT there, which is somewhat higher than the Malta rate mentioned. I suppose you could sail direct from the US to Malta but it's a hell of a long trip.

 

[JSK]

On older boats

There is an Exception/Exemption on older boats that have at sometime visited any of the EEu Islands .very simple proof needed

www.keenmarine.co.uk

 

[DownWest]

I thought there was a low tax zone in the Azores that meant one could use it as a point of entry with low VAT. Around 8/10%??
A
American friend alerted me to a Blue Moon on fleabay(23ft gaff yawl built in '86 in strip plank) he bidded at $2,000. Sold at $5,000. Yes, that is £3,300. This is a boat that has a good rep as a small offshore cruiser. (The designer was responsible for Pride Of Baltimore, among others) He was puzzled when I talked about the import problems. CE &VAT. "Just buy it it and sail it back, it's worth zilch, so what can they tax you on?" Quite a lot from what I read.
A

 

[Tranona]

Or you could buy a US built boat which has a CE mark, they do exist.

They are very few indeed. Only Hunter/Legend, McGregor and Island Packet are active in EU (in sailing boats). no reason to import the first two as both are readily available here. The last is hardly bargain basement and a US market one will not have a CE mark, although it may be easier to get one.

The OP is talking about buying an old low value UK built boat because the asking price in the US seems significantly lower than in the UK. However, the asking price is irrelevant - it is the price of having it ready to sail in the UK to a comparable standard to similar boats already available in the UK that is important. In practice most of the differential disappears in shipping costs, tax and hassle. Does not mean to say that it can't be done - there have been a couple of examples written up in the comics in the last few years. However, they were both when the £ bought $2 rather than the $1.65 and before the weakening of prices in the UK.

 

[Bobobolinsky]

It seems that this is another scheme that is impossible to monitor or control without the complete cooperation and help of the boating public.
Where is the legal database of all boats in the EEA?
CE marking of boats did not not exist before 1998 and the RCD scheme did not exist before 1996
The illegality of sale and the RCD is only valid on the first sale within the UK.
Because they are trying to operate a retrospective system, documentary proof is limited to the flimsiest of documents, such as a receipt for a marina mooring. I've sat for as long as it takes to write this, and I can see huge loopholes in these two pieces of EU legislative rubbish, a licence to print money. There are pople making huge sums of money just moving goods around europe and claiming subsidies. If the EU cannot control an irish farmer moving a flock of sheep, what chance have they of controlling this. Ringing and cloning of cars is rife in the UK and the DVLA has a register and taxation control.
The one thing that does annoy me about these two little bits of Insidious Belgian Beaurocracy, is that to the letter of the law, if you carry out major refits, on olderboats an RCD has to be completed and the replacement engines must be approved. Try and sort that one out Brussels.

 

[Elessar]

However, they were both when the £ bought $2 rather than the $1.65 and before the weakening of prices in the UK.

I did my import at low 180 something. Total costs including vat, shipping, import tax, a diesel transplant and CE was £42k. Similar examples were on the market in the UK for £65k at the time and the surveyor said £55k as a selling price.

It was a bargain because it was a newish and lightly used boat with a seized (v8 petrol) engine. I was happy and able to re-engine it.

There are so many boats there that you are more likely to find one marked down for a reason you don't mind. For example I know someone who bought one with a big hole in the front (hurricane damage). He is mending it out there and sailing it back when done.

If you want a perfect boat, part ex, etc then go to a dealer here as the savings are now thin due to the exchange rate. But you can find bargains in the states if you're prepared to accept (fixable) compromises.