CE Compliance ?

[TRA]

Apologies as I cant imagine that this question has not been asked at least once before, however a couple of hours of scouring the forums hasn't born fruit so I'll put it to the collective wisdom.

I currently have a 27' Chaparral, bought last year on a bit of a whim, but has re-invigorated my passion for boating again, so looking to upgrade. My passion is for Trawler yachts, good ones of which seem rare in the UK, but plentiful in the US. Having done a bit of research on this and other sites, I have a fair idea of the costs and issues with importing and happy to live with these and thinking of importing a Mainship 40 aft cabin. However, the fly in the ointment seems to be CE compliance. Firstly, my current boat, which was imported about 5 years ago by the original owner appears not to be plated ( I did not do as much research on this purchase.) and I would obviously in theory need to get my new import plated.

However, having spent many many hours on ebay, boats and outboards etc. and just generally when I was looking for my previous boat, the UK is awash with "grey" imports, few of which appear to be compliant. I even went to see a Carver for sale in the UK recently which was generating a fair bit of interest and is now sold (admitedly at a lowish price), which was an import and not compliant.

So my question is this, I am not much fussed about the effect on resale as I bought my current boat very cheaply and even with VAT, shipping etc. I am happy to live with the write down on any import. However, what is the real issue with having an none compliant boat in the UK??? It appears this is barely regulated, and I cant see an effective way in which it will (for the cost involved to police it would be so high, our bankrupt country is unlikely to go down this route in the near future). Plus it appears from my rather subjective "research" that this seems still to be a largely "nice to have", and the world of second hand boats seems to plod along nicely with some adhering and some not to what is a seemingly another bit of pointless EU bureaucracy. Am I missing something (again)...??? all views, opinions and scorn welcome...

 

[Trundlebug]

Older UK and EU boats won't be CE marked anyway, only those registered on or after 1st Jan 1993 I think (if it's the same for boats as for machinery).

All it means if it's not CE marked, is that it doesn't comply with all the relevant British and European standards, so it effectively hasn't been designed, or constructed to such a high standard in certain (maybe many) respects. HOWEVER that doesn't mean it's unsafe, or badly designed, just as older boats aren't. It just means you don't have a boat that's to the same standard as CE marked ones.

Hence the lower values I guess. Perhaps if you're not bothered about the effect on value, it just puts more onus on you to check the design and build quality (wiring standards, safety features etc).

Hope that clarifies

T

 

[spinreach]

Previous forume thread on CE compliance

Possibly the type of thread you were searching for? Bit of a diversion within the thread on canopies, but it does revert to teh CE question later on in the thread



http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195210

 

[Wiggo]

I think the technically correct answer is that it is illegal to sell a non-CE marked boat in the EU, even for a private individual, if the boat is newer than whatever the start date fror the RCD was.

Quite what that means in practice is unclear, but I suspect if it was involved in an accident, the new owner's insurers would likely come looking for you.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

AFAIK, it is not illegal to import and use a non CE compliant boat into the EU but it is illegal to import and sell a non CE compliant boat or any piece of equipment which should be CE marked. So, in theory, when you sell your Chapperal or your imported trawler yacht within the EU, you should get it CE marked before you do so. As you have rightly pointed out, there are no CE police operating in the EU which is why there are many non CE marked boats being used and sold in the EU.
Thats fine but there are one or two issues to think about. Have you informed your insurance co that your boat is non CE marked? If you have a claim they just might use that as an excuse to refuse it. Similarly, if you have an accident and H & SE or the MCA find out that your boat is non CE marked, they might just use that as a reason to prosecute. It has happened in the construction equipment industry.
Getting a boat CE marked is not cheap but it can be done by a number of organisations. Talk to these people for example http://www.ceproof.com/Marine/asb.htm
Apart from CE marking the other issue with importing US boats is the voltage that the mains appliances run on which will be 110V of course. That can be overcome with a transformer but you still have the issue of getting spares and repairs for 110V equipment

 

[DAKA]

I would be very surprised if a prosecution was ever brought in this case as the boat will be US coast guard certified which is equal to or exceeds the ce rating .

Example
someone dies in a fire from a fuel line that is not CE marked but is USCG marked meaning it complies to the exact same specification seeing as the CE scheme was based on the USCG requirements.

Just as a thought it might be worth looking into the cost of a British Boat safety scheme cert. which is less than a tenth of the cost and produces proof by means of a 3 year certificate that your boat is safe for use in England.
Agree the 110 volt needs consideration, I nearly boat a US boat a few years ago but the 110 step down transformer was incredibly inefficient and almost unusable, the boat needed changing to 240volt

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I would be very surprised if a prosecution was ever brought in this case as the boat will be US coast guard certified which is equal to or exceeds the ce rating .

Example
someone dies in a fire from a fuel line that is not CE marked but is USCG marked meaning it complies to the exact same specification seeing as the CE scheme was based on the USCG requirements.

Just as a thought it might be worth looking into the cost of a British Boat safety scheme cert. which is less than a tenth of the cost and produces proof by means of a 3 year certificate that your boat is safe for use in England.
Agree the 110 volt needs consideration, I nearly boat a US boat a few years ago but the 110 step down transformer was incredibly inefficient and almost unusable, the boat needed changing to 240volt

Ho, ho, it would be nice if H & SE were that sensible. I know of prosecutions (not in the boat industry) brought on the basis that a piece of equipment involved in an accident was not CE compliant, irrespective of what standards it was built to

 

[Salty John]

Penalty for selling or putting into service a non-compliant boat is 3 months prison and/or a £5000 fine. This applies to private individuals as well as companies.

 

[Nautibusiness]

AFAIK, it is not illegal to import and use a non CE compliant boat into the EU but it is illegal to import and sell a non CE compliant boat or any piece of equipment which should be CE marked. So, in theory, when you sell your Chapperal or your imported trawler yacht within the EU, you should get it CE marked before you do so. As you have rightly pointed out, there are no CE police operating in the EU which is why there are many non CE marked boats being used and sold in the EU.
Thats fine but there are one or two issues to think about. Have you informed your insurance co that your boat is non CE marked? If you have a claim they just might use that as an excuse to refuse it. Similarly, if you have an accident and H & SE or the MCA find out that your boat is non CE marked, they might just use that as a reason to prosecute. It has happened in the construction equipment industry.
Getting a boat CE marked is not cheap but it can be done by a number of organisations. Talk to these people for example http://www.ceproof.com/Marine/asb.htm
Apart from CE marking the other issue with importing US boats is the voltage that the mains appliances run on which will be 110V of course. That can be overcome with a transformer but you still have the issue of getting spares and repairs for 110V equipment

All spot on.
The only exceptions being if a boat is for commercial use (eg: fishing or charter and then a different set of standards - eg: MCA Coding is required).

You can import or build a non CE Marked boat and use it, but your insurance company won't be impressed if you don't tell them.
But, don't try and sell it!

Shakey ground here, but I believe that if you build your own boat you can sell it on after five years without the need for a CE mark, anytime before and you'll potentially find you and your boat in hot water.
Again, slightly shakey ground as I haven't the old ABYA course notes to refer to, but I think the date that all boats imported for sale or built in the UK and EU needed RCD CE Marking was June 16th 1998.
Older boats don't require anything if already in the EU by that date, anything from that date onwards will need it.

Think of it a bit like the Kite Mark. You wouldn't knowingly use a TV or kettle without a Kite Mark. You are far more likely to kill yourself on a boat that hasn't been checked over for it's build quality, safety features and seaworthyness.

 

[Imperial One]

CE Marking

In the hope of being helpful, we import and sell a range of sea going boats ranging in size from 30 feet to 85 feet from Holland and also the Bill Dixon designed Johnson Superyachts from Taiwan.
Naturally, all of these have been CE approved and carry appropriate coding plates and when new, relevant bits of paper are issued to the new owners.

We have been asked by the authorites for proof of CE approval on new boats at Boat Shows..........someone has not got much else to do I think!.......... so they do check from time to time.
Maybe just when it is easy to do so without too much effort, like a boat show, but they do check.

Now the good bit, there is a company operating in Hamble called CE Proof who will look at your boat and CE approve/code it if needed.
Their telephone number is 02380 453245.
We have used them ourselves and found the service to be all you could want.

Mike.

 

[Salty John]

"But, don't try and sell it!"

Or put it into service. i.e. Use it. That's the wording on the RCD.

 

[Imperial One]

Ce Coding

"But, don't try and sell it!"
.

Why not?

Sorry John, unless I am misunderstanding your post, I think if the boat is checked and approved it can be sold.

If it's been coded and approved there is no issue.

All new boats have to be checked and then once the first one has been done all identical models from the same builder can be 'assumed' to be compliant and use the same approval.

Some manufacturers, like Wim van der Valk, insist on each and every ship they build being tested individually.
They are a bespoke builder so have the time do this but I can equally see how a mass producer could not afford the time, or cost, to do so hence they use the 'same type principle' and issue a coding notice and plaque accordingly.

 

[zt260]

AFAIK all boats imported into the eu after 1998 need to be CE plated it dosent matter when the boat was made.You will not get a BSS certificate(for use on rivers and canals) on a non CE plated boat as this is part of the check they do when certifying the boat.
I would agree with others if you bring the boat in and use it on the sea then the risk is with you however you cannot sell it legally(through a broker)
Customs dont seem to check if a boat is CE plated when it arrives in the uk they are more interested in the Vat.
Alot of boats are Ce plated after they arrive in the UK
hope this helps

ashley

 

[Imperial One]

Ce Proof

Ashley, you are correct but the original query was on a pre owned boat and they are not covered if brought in from outside the EU.

Therein lies the trouble.

To resell it in the EU a coding is needed unless you can sell it privately ....but through a broker or dealer it will be an issue.

Mike.

 

[zt260]

Yes i brought a pre-owned boat in 3 yrs ago it was built in 1992 whether its pre-owned or not if it was brought into the EU after 1998 in by law(in theory) it should be CE plated,If you are going to keep it and use on the sea then the risk of not CE plating it is yours


ash

 

[Salty John]

Imperial One, the quote is from a previous responder who implies that you can use a non-compliant boat but "don't try to sell it". My point was you can't use a non-compliant boat let alone sell it.
Obviously, a CE marked boat can be used and sold.

 

[Imperial One]

Ce Proof

Imperial One, the quote is from a previous responder who implies that you can use a non-compliant boat but "don't try to sell it". My point was you can't use a non-compliant boat let alone sell it.
Obviously, a CE marked boat can be used and sold.

Sorry, now I understand your comment John.

The really daft thing is that there are loads of older boats out there, all non compliant through their age, all doing sterling service and all saleable simply because they were built pre the regulations..........aren't EU regulations great things!

Just a thought I wonder if the French bother about this sort of thing or simply shrug and have another glass of Vino?

Mike.

 

[GSL]

I imported a US built boat, and my enquiries at the time showed very clearly that the boat could not be "put in to service or sold" without a CE plate. To do so was a crimnal offence, ie if caught you will end up with a criminal record, not just a fine! If you have an accident the consequences could be horrendous, public liability etc.

CE Proof carried out the work, minimal number of small jobs to be done to comply, and all for about £3,500. Worth every penny I thought.

The 110 / 240 volt issue turned out to be a non-issue, put two 3.2 KV transformers in the transom locker in place of the very very heavy 110 volt shorepower leads, and everything works fine except the battery charger, that was changed and all still good two years later.

I would import again in a heartbeat.

PM me if you want more details, I struggled to find good information two years ago when I did it, and flew by the seat of my pants.

Graham

 

[rafiki_]

As far as I am aware, you might get away with a non cert boat in the UK, but if you take it over the channel, you have a very high probability of the locals asking for the CE mark when they are checking your customs/VAT/anything else docs. They are far more parochial about protecting their local industries than the UK!

Trading Stds are supposed to police this reg in the UK, but will probably complain that they are not properly funded. Hence they visit shows and trade fairs as you can hit many suppliers in a short time.

CEProof can do the hull and fittings bit of the CE marking, but I am not sure if they can do the exhaust emissions and pass by noise bits. You might get lucky if the engine manufacturer already has the approval docs, but it is a risk, and very expensive to do. circa £10-£20 k for the emissions, if you can get the engine out and into a emissions lab, and probably £1k ish for the pass-by noise, if you can get a dry and windfree day.

 

[zt260]

if you want contact this company and they will be able to help
http://www.americansportsboats.com/


ash