Catamarans: is it really sailing?

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i agree that sailing a cruising cat is a more remote sailing experience than a mono. You aren't wired-in to the the sea as you are on a mono.

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Somehow doubt these guys would agree:

tri_623.jpg
 
Re: \"serious cruising\"

If I may be so bold as to suggest you at look very seriously at the Maxim 38 http://www.maximyachts.com?

Under no circumstances look at anything built by Eric Schoeman or his long list of bankrupt companies. He built/builds the Wildcat, Jaguar and Royal Cape catamarans and is entirely responsible for giving South African cats a bad name.
 
Ah, yes, the patio door question! Funny you should say that, I was just about to raise that in this discussion. Now, I have to say I'm not convinced that a patio door on a boat has blue water credentials. What does happen if you take a big lump of green following sea and it smacks against said doors? Or are cats always going so fast all the time that they naturally outrun big greenies and this never happens? No matter what sort of toughened glass it is I can't believe it's going to withstand the ocean in it's fury.

Comparing the Broadblue to the Lagoon I can see how the BB has addressed some of the issues you raised, which differentiate it from being a charter cat and make it more of an all-weather boat, but it still had those patio doors! Am I missing something here?
 
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i agree that sailing a cruising cat is a more remote sailing experience than a mono. You aren't wired-in to the the sea as you are on a mono.

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Somehow doubt these guys would agree:

tri_623.jpg


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Yes, but, that bears as much in common with yer average cruising cat as my Island Packet does with a Volvo 70.... /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Re: \"serious cruising\"

Nice boats Stingo - although they still have patio doors!!

Any idea how much their 380 costs, for comparison with the Broadblue and Lagoon? Are they considered blue water cruisers?
 
Re: \"serious cruising\"

i think you have to get used to the idea of patio doors. There again, monohulls have bits of plywood or plastic to hold back the big greenies.

I suppose that if the big waves kerunched hard enough to smash the door in then replacing the door would be the least of your problems - it's highly likely that the cockpit cushions will also need replacing *and* some of the pot plants too.
 
Re: \"serious cruising\"

but but but...

Why can't there be a sliding solid panel of some sort, a sort of sliding designer washboard, to cover over all that bare naked glass in times of extremis?

Replacing the doors would not be my concern (easy enough trip to B&Q for a new set innit?) but sponging the greenie remains from inside the hulls would be a bit of a thankless task.

Maybe it's another cat-macho thing like vagabonds jaunty hatches - look, see?, I can still float even when my entire cat is turned into a green-water jacuzzi...
 
Re: \"serious cruising\"

They enjoy a very good blue water reputation and depending on what sort of kit you order, it will set you back about £130k for a new one.

I am not overly concerned with patio doors simply because with today's weather forecasting and communications, you should be able to see it coming a few days before and then head off in a direction that avoids the worst of it.
 
Re: \"serious cruising\"

oh alright, you can have some storm board things, lumps of plywood which i think could be painted white to screw over the windows or slot in, which will look quite serious. Also, the stickers with "Not to be opened at sea" over various bleeding-obviously-don't-open hatches and portholes makes things very bluewaterish too.

However, i reckon the bimini, bits of roof and lots of other windows are probably going to get wiped off during this virtual storm so the boat could get a bit open plan anyway if the doors start getting caved in. Generally, i think sea and storms bust things by fatigue - repeatedly stress yet still with absolute design strength. Not by one-off arg freak whamming waves. "Yes, close the door dear would you? -i think i can see a 58 foot wave coming up behind us..."

Seriously, i would consider upgrading bilge pumps having had loads of water in stock charter boat, athough a mono: the standard fit these days is to have them quite small, and all clogged up with sawdust...
 
Re: \"serious cruising\"

I'm not too bothered about patio doors as the cockpit and cabin are well above the waterline and can drain into the sea - and there's no keel to drag you down if so much comes in that it floods over the lips and down into the hulls.

On the UK weather front though, I'd far rather be in a cat than a mono for safety and comfort, although I have a mono here because of marina costs and for conventional fun sailing.

For really bad weather or long distances then give me a cat (and so far, a Lagoon without the flybridge) anytime. I don't really agree with the "reefing by numbers" bit as I found plenty of feel as steering becomes awkward and the leebow starts feeling sluggish in the backs of waves so I've never had much doubt about the time to reef. I was once a little worried about the strain on the rig when punching into short seas whilst close-reaching at 9 knots and therefore reefed to reduce the speed and impact a bit.

On my longest sail I was with a crew who'd got a Lagoon up to 18 knots the year before so I do wonder whether people are sometimes a bit over-cautious about what these boats should be able to handle and therefore reef too early - before all the normal warning signs that the boat is over-canvassed.
 
Re: \"serious cruising\"

Yes, you're right about ranging at anchor. This can be controlled to an extent by using a bridle to both bows hooked on to the chain or attached to the rope with a rolling hitch. Ease the bridle out so it is just below the water when the cable is just loaded.
 
Re: \"serious cruising\"

I've found that works best too - and tend to do the same for a mooring bouy when possible.

The main anchoring advantage (apart from getting in close to the shore), is the lack of rolling I think.
 
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... Or are cats always going so fast all the time that they naturally outrun big greenies and this never happens? No matter what sort of toughened glass it is I can't believe it's going to withstand the ocean in it's fury.

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No, I've been pooped by a big sea while doing around 10 knots in fresh tradewind conditions. OTOH there is an account in 'Heavy Weather Sailing' (edition of around 1995) of a Kelsall with sliding doors. The owner, a recent convert from monos, was sure they would be stove in but found they never received more than spray.
 
Re: \"serious cruising\"

There is a good account by Richard Woods on www.sailingcatamarans.com about his catamaran Eclipse surviving a storm off Central America, after the crew were air-lifted off.

Go to 'Latest news', and then the 'Perfect Storm Reports'.

I am sure that many other catamarans would have also survived this storm had they been in the same circumstances.
 
Re: \"serious cruising\"

Yup.

'Heavy Weather Sailing', all versions, relates accounts of hatches being stove-in by big, lumpy seas - and you don't need to be far away in the Pacific to get them, as recent ODAS wave height reports will confirm. The critical issue is to keep the ocean on the outside, innit? So plywood panels are indicated, premarked with the outlines needed to cover the various glass hatches ( and GRP ones, too ) with holes pre-bored, bolts for strongbacks to hand, and a suitable saw. Easy to prepare, and can live under a berth cushion.

As for taking a big green one in the back-end ( cue rude remarks! ), you don't get to choose. If that happens, and the huge cockpit fills with several tons of seawater, much of it will find its way below via the burst patio doors before anyone can do anything about it. Then that water drains down into the rear of each hull, where the engines are.... and then she's down by the stern, with the engines and electrics swamped.

The next big green 'pooping' just continues the process. The cockpit drains on most cruising catamarans I know are wholly incapable of draining such a volume before most of it gets below.....

Can't happen? It certainly did to one Prout cat off Holland, with loss of life.

It seems to me that large patio doors on many cruising cats need a supplementary bracing structure for bad weather well offshore, and cockpit drainage could well do with upgrading.

/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Re: \"serious cruising\" and patio doors

Re the title above, I think the two are not very compatible...... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Quite honestly I think that sliding glass patio doors are a health (and wealth) hazard ashore as well (I have walked into them a few times....), and even more so on a boat - hazardous to boat health especially, like when TCM's very possible 58' wave is about to dump into the cockpit....
I would much prefer stout doors, with provision for washboards to be fitted inside the doors as well.
 
Re: \"serious cruising\" and patio doors

stick (or paint) little circles on big sheets of glass to avoid walking into them.

I suppose washboards should really be on the outside, no? Otherwise the bits of board will be retained by small screws, raher than by the whole door...
 
Re: \"serious cruising\"

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consider upgrading bilge pumps having had loads of water in stock charter boat, athough a mono: the standard fit these days is to have them quite small, and all clogged up with sawdust...

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You've sailed a Jeanneau, too, then?
 
Re: \"serious cruising\" and patio doors

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Quite honestly I think that sliding glass patio doors are a health (and wealth) hazard ashore as well (I have walked into them a few times quote]

Maybe you could pay a visit to a catamaran before the 5th Margarita, you might find it much easier to notice the doors. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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