davierobb
Well-Known Member
Do these boats sail very well and do the tack as well as the owners website suggests i.e tack through 70 deg with very little leeway.
catalac 900 any opinions ??????
- Thread starter davierobb
- Start date
C
Chrusty1
Guest
Well if you want a caravan, why not buy a proper one, a Swift or a Sprite or something?? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I'll nip off now before the caravans afloat brigade get here! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I'll nip off now before the caravans afloat brigade get here! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
dk
Well-Known Member
About as well as the Trollac 10m!
boatmike
Well-Known Member
Catalacs generally are spacious, comfortable and surprisingly good downwind. They are not however renowned for sailing to windward and "easy tacking through 70 degrees" is in my opinion optomistic. Very few cats are as good to windward as a deep fin keeled monohull although many compete well with bilgekeelers. The lack of a proper keel on the catalacs is a disadvantage in both tacking, leeway, and directional stability. They also "hobbyhorse" a lot. Having said that as a cruising family boat they have been very popular and should not be entirely written off as a floating caravan.
bendyone
Well-Known Member
Do these boats sail very well No
do the tack as well No
e tack through 70 deg with very little leeway. No
But with the wind behind the beam they go like a rocket and when you get to the port there is so much space everyone else will be jealous.
Overall a good safe family boat. ( we had one for 11 years.)
do the tack as well No
e tack through 70 deg with very little leeway. No
But with the wind behind the beam they go like a rocket and when you get to the port there is so much space everyone else will be jealous.
Overall a good safe family boat. ( we had one for 11 years.)
wotayottie
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Do these boats sail very well and do the tack as well as the owners website suggests i.e tack through 70 deg with very little leeway.
[/ QUOTE ]
Cloud cuckoo land! So a floating shed with no keels tacks through a better angle than many racing monos? The claim is laughable.
Catalacs are perfectly worthy boats but they arent good sailers to windward - they are motor sailers. Try one and see
Do these boats sail very well and do the tack as well as the owners website suggests i.e tack through 70 deg with very little leeway.
[/ QUOTE ]
Cloud cuckoo land! So a floating shed with no keels tacks through a better angle than many racing monos? The claim is laughable.
Catalacs are perfectly worthy boats but they arent good sailers to windward - they are motor sailers. Try one and see
davierobb
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the replies. More or less confirmed my suspicions. If I had been wrong then the holly grail might have existed. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Adaero
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Do these boats sail very well and do the tack as well as the owners website suggests i.e tack through 70 deg with very little leeway.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have never sailed a Catalac but I will say that no catamaran I know of can tack through 70 deg. Cats also have mini keels so leeway is another problem when sailing upwind. We can sail around 40 deg at best to windward and when I do need to tack at these sort of angles I need to bear away by about 10 deg to accelerate before we tack or the chances are you will stall going through the tack. I can't tell you how many times, when I first got a cat, that I've deliberately demostrated to the rest of the crew how to hove-to during a tack /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Use 100 deg as rule of thumb on most cats. The multi mob will probably lynch me for saying the above but its true!!
At wind angles greater than 50 deg you won't find a better sailing boat (IMHO) but don't buy a Cat if you want to compete with a mono upwind cus it just won't happen. You buy a cat for the space, faster on all points of sail (above 50 deg), living space above ground rather than in a cave /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif, the ability to sail flat and all the other reasons that have been stated numerous times during the multi/mono debates on here.
This post is not meant to kick off another multi/mono arguement so please don't read it as so.
Do these boats sail very well and do the tack as well as the owners website suggests i.e tack through 70 deg with very little leeway.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have never sailed a Catalac but I will say that no catamaran I know of can tack through 70 deg. Cats also have mini keels so leeway is another problem when sailing upwind. We can sail around 40 deg at best to windward and when I do need to tack at these sort of angles I need to bear away by about 10 deg to accelerate before we tack or the chances are you will stall going through the tack. I can't tell you how many times, when I first got a cat, that I've deliberately demostrated to the rest of the crew how to hove-to during a tack /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Use 100 deg as rule of thumb on most cats. The multi mob will probably lynch me for saying the above but its true!!
At wind angles greater than 50 deg you won't find a better sailing boat (IMHO) but don't buy a Cat if you want to compete with a mono upwind cus it just won't happen. You buy a cat for the space, faster on all points of sail (above 50 deg), living space above ground rather than in a cave /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif, the ability to sail flat and all the other reasons that have been stated numerous times during the multi/mono debates on here.
This post is not meant to kick off another multi/mono arguement so please don't read it as so.
C
Chrusty1
Guest
A cat sails fastest and best with one hull out of the water, that being the case, why not just have one hull?
Sail flat??????!!!, bloody things leap about like a demented frog on steriods, in any kind of a chop!, horrible snatchy motion, best place for them is in a catavan park /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
PS. Most marina operators view catamarans as a licence to print money, which is a bit of a shame, because that is where most of them spend their whole existance. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Sail flat??????!!!, bloody things leap about like a demented frog on steriods, in any kind of a chop!, horrible snatchy motion, best place for them is in a catavan park /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
PS. Most marina operators view catamarans as a licence to print money, which is a bit of a shame, because that is where most of them spend their whole existance. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
mobeydick
Well-Known Member
Well, I can sail at 35deg (apparent) without too much problem (on a cat, not a Catalac) so 35deg either side of the wind = 70deg. This is apparent wind mind you, and I prefer to go past to around 45deg and then harden up to 35deg. 40deg is faster through the water and better in chop.
md
md
Robin
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Well, I can sail at 35deg (apparent) without too much problem (on a cat, not a Catalac) so 35deg either side of the wind = 70deg. This is apparent wind mind you, and I prefer to go past to around 45deg and then harden up to 35deg. 40deg is faster through the water and better in chop.
[/ QUOTE ]
You need to read the real instruments to measure the tacking angle which will bear no relation to the apparent wind angle on each tack added together, your 70deg figure. The apparent wind angle is affected by the combination of true windspeed, and the boatspeed then apparent windspeed achieved. Then there is leeway because the apparent wind angle is where the boat is pointing not where it is actually going when sideslip is taken into account.
FWIW we have a closewinded mono and our optimum apparent wind angle is around 28degs apparent although we can 'do' 22degs at a pinch (pun intended) but in no way do we tack through 56degs or 44degs, I wish!
Well, I can sail at 35deg (apparent) without too much problem (on a cat, not a Catalac) so 35deg either side of the wind = 70deg. This is apparent wind mind you, and I prefer to go past to around 45deg and then harden up to 35deg. 40deg is faster through the water and better in chop.
[/ QUOTE ]
You need to read the real instruments to measure the tacking angle which will bear no relation to the apparent wind angle on each tack added together, your 70deg figure. The apparent wind angle is affected by the combination of true windspeed, and the boatspeed then apparent windspeed achieved. Then there is leeway because the apparent wind angle is where the boat is pointing not where it is actually going when sideslip is taken into account.
FWIW we have a closewinded mono and our optimum apparent wind angle is around 28degs apparent although we can 'do' 22degs at a pinch (pun intended) but in no way do we tack through 56degs or 44degs, I wish!
boatmike
Well-Known Member
Spot on Robin. Actually my own heavy old Snowgoose can sail at nearly 30 degrees to the APPARENT wind when set up right but that's in ideal conditions with about 20 knots of wind but still translates to an ACHIEVED COURSE of about 45 to 50 degrees TRUE. Cats can often show the app wind coming from well forward of true especially on a beam reach due to being able to achieve a speed of about 50% of the true wind speed. It does not mean they will sail as close to the wind as a fin keeler though and often the best performance to windward is achieved off the wind a bit more. Pointing high and going sideways is a waste of time.
Adaero
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Well, I can sail at 35deg (apparent) without too much problem (on a cat, not a Catalac) so 35deg either side of the wind = 70deg. This is apparent wind mind you, and I prefer to go past to around 45deg and then harden up to 35deg. 40deg is faster through the water and better in chop.
md
[/ QUOTE ]
Next time you're out set your autopilot tack angle to 70 deg, get your boat to 35 deg and then auto tack. You will be sat there hoved-to as it won't go through at 70 deg. I can also get mine to point at 35 deg if I kick the boom out about a ft towards the wind but unless you have daggerboards on your cat (whatever it is?) it will not go from +35 to -35 in a tack. I have sailed on daggerboarded cats which can do maybe 85 to 90 deg but never below that.
Crusty
The idea of getting a cat was that when we were too old to sail we could just crane it in to a seaside caravan park and there will be no having to move our gear or anything!! We could even fit a Stena stair lift to the transoms, ideal. We cat sailors are not just pretty faces you know /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Well, I can sail at 35deg (apparent) without too much problem (on a cat, not a Catalac) so 35deg either side of the wind = 70deg. This is apparent wind mind you, and I prefer to go past to around 45deg and then harden up to 35deg. 40deg is faster through the water and better in chop.
md
[/ QUOTE ]
Next time you're out set your autopilot tack angle to 70 deg, get your boat to 35 deg and then auto tack. You will be sat there hoved-to as it won't go through at 70 deg. I can also get mine to point at 35 deg if I kick the boom out about a ft towards the wind but unless you have daggerboards on your cat (whatever it is?) it will not go from +35 to -35 in a tack. I have sailed on daggerboarded cats which can do maybe 85 to 90 deg but never below that.
Crusty
The idea of getting a cat was that when we were too old to sail we could just crane it in to a seaside caravan park and there will be no having to move our gear or anything!! We could even fit a Stena stair lift to the transoms, ideal. We cat sailors are not just pretty faces you know /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
Our Sadler sails well at 30 degrees to the apparent wind on flat seas, more like 34 in chop. But when we look at our track on the plotter we think we have done well if we do better than 90 degrees on a tack. In the Med, so no tide. That's taking leeway into account of course, but it is the true situation.
whipper_snapper
Well-Known Member
They probably mean 70 each side!
I think if your tracks to windward are less than 140 degs apart you will be doing well!!
I think if your tracks to windward are less than 140 degs apart you will be doing well!!
maxi77
Well-Known Member
Many years ago now a mate owned a half share in a Catalac 9. Now in his alter ego he raced an enterprise so his big boat sailing was quiote aggressive, and he would consistantly outsail the average cruising monohull. Of course the round the cans races were another story.
The truth is a cat is unlikely to be as close winded as a mono, but will often be faster of the winf. As for comfort well I think the fair answer is it is different. You certainly have the space though the motion is different. Some people like them, and some hate them. At the end of the day you have to make your own mind up.
The truth is a cat is unlikely to be as close winded as a mono, but will often be faster of the winf. As for comfort well I think the fair answer is it is different. You certainly have the space though the motion is different. Some people like them, and some hate them. At the end of the day you have to make your own mind up.
Adaero
Well-Known Member
I quite agree Maxi.
The motion is certainly different. Our worst sea conditions for comfort is motoring into short chop, whereas a mono (due to the weight) would tend to cut through much of it. A Cat's bows will bounce through giving an uncomfortable motion which is slightly improved when under sail as it tends to power through much better.
A cat though is superb going downwind even with the wind at 180 deg we can sail flat with no roll.
Catamarans are a bit like Marmite, you either love them or hate them!
The motion is certainly different. Our worst sea conditions for comfort is motoring into short chop, whereas a mono (due to the weight) would tend to cut through much of it. A Cat's bows will bounce through giving an uncomfortable motion which is slightly improved when under sail as it tends to power through much better.
A cat though is superb going downwind even with the wind at 180 deg we can sail flat with no roll.
Catamarans are a bit like Marmite, you either love them or hate them!
jwilson
Well-Known Member
Giving the benefit of the doubt that this is not a troll!
I have sailed a Catalac 9, back in the early 80s, perfect for what I wanted at the time, a gentle family fortnight's cruise with very small children. Sailed along the S coast westwards from Poole, in company for a while with the Fastnet Race fleet, reaching in Force 3-4 we kept up with many smaller racers, and even passed a couple. Then the wind headed us and ..... we put into Salcombe and dried out on a beach for a couple of days the children to play, before going on west.
Absolute rubbish to windward, tacks through about 110 degrees, doesn't like a chop. Never had any problem tacking, as long as you know how to do it (I've sailed many other cats). But lots of space for pottering/living/sitting around, can make 7-8 knots offwind, and as I said, very good for the specific purpose at the time.
I have sailed a Catalac 9, back in the early 80s, perfect for what I wanted at the time, a gentle family fortnight's cruise with very small children. Sailed along the S coast westwards from Poole, in company for a while with the Fastnet Race fleet, reaching in Force 3-4 we kept up with many smaller racers, and even passed a couple. Then the wind headed us and ..... we put into Salcombe and dried out on a beach for a couple of days the children to play, before going on west.
Absolute rubbish to windward, tacks through about 110 degrees, doesn't like a chop. Never had any problem tacking, as long as you know how to do it (I've sailed many other cats). But lots of space for pottering/living/sitting around, can make 7-8 knots offwind, and as I said, very good for the specific purpose at the time.
MacMan
Well-Known Member
Just to add some more figures - on GPS courses (i.e including leeway) from going a good steady speed on one tack to similar on the opposite tack I reckon that I tack through 110 degrees on a Prout 33.
I would be surprised if a Catalac could beat this. I may well go further off course intially to get through the tack and then build speed. But in real life it is this GPS to GPS course that counts. I can probably pinch higher to but make the best VMG this is what I do find in practice.
I do have a 20 year old sh**gged main (but new Genoa). New one being quoted for.
I do notice how many mono's don't do much better than this and often wonder how much difference between what people *think* they make and yacht club bar statements and reality. In the bar I am quite sure that I tack through less than 70 degress ;-)
I am the first to admit I will be beaten up upwind by many (but not all) monos.
For what it's worth I did beat a 46 foot Bav down wind - which I thought was nice.
But this is my slow, steady reliable Prout. Not the fastest cat by a long shot. If you compare racing monos to racing cats (*maybe tris) I know where my bet would be.
I would be surprised if a Catalac could beat this. I may well go further off course intially to get through the tack and then build speed. But in real life it is this GPS to GPS course that counts. I can probably pinch higher to but make the best VMG this is what I do find in practice.
I do have a 20 year old sh**gged main (but new Genoa). New one being quoted for.
I do notice how many mono's don't do much better than this and often wonder how much difference between what people *think* they make and yacht club bar statements and reality. In the bar I am quite sure that I tack through less than 70 degress ;-)
I am the first to admit I will be beaten up upwind by many (but not all) monos.
For what it's worth I did beat a 46 foot Bav down wind - which I thought was nice.
But this is my slow, steady reliable Prout. Not the fastest cat by a long shot. If you compare racing monos to racing cats (*maybe tris) I know where my bet would be.
mobeydick
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, I can sail at 35deg (apparent) without too much problem (on a cat, not a Catalac) so 35deg either side of the wind = 70deg. This is apparent wind mind you, and I prefer to go past to around 45deg and then harden up to 35deg. 40deg is faster through the water and better in chop.
[/ QUOTE ]
You need to read the real instruments to measure the tacking angle which will bear no relation to the apparent wind angle on each tack added together, your 70deg figure. The apparent wind angle is affected by the combination of true windspeed, and the boatspeed then apparent windspeed achieved. Then there is leeway because the apparent wind angle is where the boat is pointing not where it is actually going when sideslip is taken into account.
FWIW we have a closewinded mono and our optimum apparent wind angle is around 28degs apparent although we can 'do' 22degs at a pinch (pun intended) but in no way do we tack through 56degs or 44degs, I wish!
[/ QUOTE ]
I quite agree - I was showing how some folks may CLAIM "70deg tacking" when refering to apparent wind readouts, which is maybe what the Catalac crowd were doing.
Sorry if I was not clear.
MD
[ QUOTE ]
Well, I can sail at 35deg (apparent) without too much problem (on a cat, not a Catalac) so 35deg either side of the wind = 70deg. This is apparent wind mind you, and I prefer to go past to around 45deg and then harden up to 35deg. 40deg is faster through the water and better in chop.
[/ QUOTE ]
You need to read the real instruments to measure the tacking angle which will bear no relation to the apparent wind angle on each tack added together, your 70deg figure. The apparent wind angle is affected by the combination of true windspeed, and the boatspeed then apparent windspeed achieved. Then there is leeway because the apparent wind angle is where the boat is pointing not where it is actually going when sideslip is taken into account.
FWIW we have a closewinded mono and our optimum apparent wind angle is around 28degs apparent although we can 'do' 22degs at a pinch (pun intended) but in no way do we tack through 56degs or 44degs, I wish!
[/ QUOTE ]
I quite agree - I was showing how some folks may CLAIM "70deg tacking" when refering to apparent wind readouts, which is maybe what the Catalac crowd were doing.
Sorry if I was not clear.
MD
