cardiff bay boat wash

[jason -and the arguenauts]

Hope this doesnt come over as a misery post but last weekend we were forced by circumstances to stay for 2 days on our CBYC pontoon which is fairly near the front. It was sunny so every person and his brother were out in their speedboats together with the two big ribs who seem to have stopped going outside to behave daft and are doing it inside instead. The result was a ridiculous amount of bumping and fender squashing just tied to a pontoon.

But its not just the wash. There is a real safety risk with kids sailing small dinghies and guys doing 40 knots in the same small bay area. And there's noise pollution for water side residents since some of the biggest powerboats clearly dont have silenced exhausts..

Dont see how Cardiff council can reconcile the safety risk and environmental risk of allowing unlimited speeds inside the bay. Is it time we had a petition for a general 5 kn limit in the bay?

 

[Allan]

Speed limits.

I too spent Sunday on my boat. My mooring is on CYC pontoon C. During the day I saw at least 10 boats speeding in the area close to the club which already has a 5kt limit. This does not include the Aquabus, which has permission to break the limit. It does include two speedboats that crossed the bay at around 10pm, when it was dark. Some weeks ago I was on my boat and considered calling the barrage when I saw two childrens toy type inflatables in the same area. In the end the 4 adults they contained paddled toward CYC and seemed to be out of danger. I am all for everyone having fun in the bay, as long as the authorities accept the it is now "when" a serious accident happens, rather than "if". Of course the litigation that will follow any accident will have to be paid by the Cardiff council payers.
Allan

 

[carise]

Just to add my view- I deliberately avoided going out on the weekend due to the high probability of the bay being filled by idiots who only go out once in a blue moon and don't know what they're doing! However, I went down on Sunday night with the aim of going out 1st thing Monday (that was a bad plan!) and whilst sat on the CBYC balcony having a fortifying drink I witnessed the commercial pleasure ribs tearing up and down with little if any respect or regard for anyone else out on the water. Yes times are hard and any business is struggling, but a business that negatively impacts on the majority is a poor advert for the joys of powerboating or yachting (I happen to enjoy both so am not an "Anti-powerboater"): just have some consideration guys. I do not advocate legislation for this, but someone will soon and that can only be a bad thing for all reasonable boaters- yet again an inconsiderate minority potentially spoiling it for the majority.


I am on C-pontoon at CBYC and I get some terrible wash from various boats chundering up and down the Ely as fast as they can at all hours- I pity those of you on the moorings or more exposed pontoons.

 

[chrishelen]

[
Dont see how Cardiff council can reconcile the safety risk and environmental risk of allowing unlimited speeds inside the bay. Is it time we had a petition for a general 5 kn limit in the bay?[/QUOTE

A few years back there were a few fatalities in the bay when people rowing out to their boats somehow ended up in the water,wash from passing boats maybe?as a result of this i know of a few people at CYC who tried to get a 5 knt limit introduced into the bay,they might as well as banged their heads against a wall,they were met with hostility from not only some boat owners but also the powers that be,i agree its only a matter of time before we see another fatality in the bay,but if a blanket speed limit is introduced who is going to police it? C.H.A. i belive have no power to police the bay until they introduce bylaws which they dont want to because they lack the manpower to enforce them.

 

[Sneds]

I am a power boater and often visit Cardiff. I am amazed that there isn't a 5kt speed limit in the bay.
Will the authorities wait to someone to be killed before introducing such a limit?
Even some sort of "one way round" would surely help.

Agree re the ribs - a bloody dangerous pain in the arse!

Perhaps CYC, CBYC, Quay Marina and Cambrian could all collectively lobby the authority?

I wonder what the RYA's posistion is?

 

[Jinks]

I'm writing this from the hammerhead nearest the river on A pontoon at CBYC having brought the boat up from our base in Swansea last Saturday.

I don't feel qualified to comment on the safety aspects of speed in the Bay but certainly from a comfort and noise perspective things could be a lot better. I would estimate that at least 50% of boats going up or down the river make no more than a nominal effort to obey the speed limit and it does make for an uncomfortable time on this pontoon.

On the bright side, we've had a great few days here with a warm welcome by all we've met. I would inagiine it's really nice in the summer!

 

[jason -and the arguenauts]

I did wonder over the weekend if the ribs had abandoined going out to fool around because they didnt seem to be doing so. However, when coming back through the locks on Tuesday there was one rib coming back in with passengers.

The rib drivers seem very competent - the problem will likely happen when there's some mistake made by another boater, and it will be the speed difference that makes things much worse.

 

[ash12]

i might sound biased on this but there will only be an accident when someone buys a v8 speedboat which does 40knts as their first boat, whereas if someone with a RIB who knows how to drive will be ok and other people who know to keep out the way of the big RIBs

 

[Sailing_Matt]

From a legal point of view if any accident happened between 2 boats the council could not be held in any way responsible as the act would be too remote to be covered by its area of responsibility. This is also similar for accidents on the Highway which in the eyes of the courts would put too heavy a burden on the public purse and would allow a flood of litigation if they were to be considered by Judges, there are many legal precedents to support this. Obviously if it was a harbour authority boat then this would be different.

I agree that the only way forward would be to lobby the relevant authorities but I am suprised nothing happened after that incident chucking people in the water. I was out in my little sailing boat on Sunday afternoon. There were a lot of motor boats out. I think the yellow rib drivers are quite competent and must have to be at least level 2 powerboat to drive commercially anyway. I found 2 motor cruisers made the most wash (I believe they may have had their planey things at the back in the down position which, even though they were travelling slowly caused huge waves at the rear) I guess they were travelling about 5 knots. There were also 2 very small (about 18ft) speedboats buzzing about everywhere, they were going extremely fast but produced little wash.

I suppose its difficult to balance the pleasures of driving powerboats to the concerns of other water users. I can understand that if a powerboat owner only has limited time on their hands they may not want to wait for the barrage which can take a time to get in and out of and therefore opts to have a quick go around the bay a few times.

Just my 5 cents.

 

[sarabande]

if the Cardiff Harbour Authority is the regulatory agent for the Bay, and they are made aware of potentially life-threatening accidents caused by the disparity in speed or by the inappropriate mixing of recreational uses, then I suggest that they do have a duty of care to the Bay's users to mitigate the risks.

I presently in discussion with a Highways authority in the SW, who are refusing to take action over dangerous trees. In an adjacent authority, a fatal accident (tree falling on car) is undergoing legal review, as the highways authority was notified that the tree in question was dangerous, and they took no action. I do not consider that risk can be 'off-handed' simply because it is expensive to manage.

Doesn't it come down to who is responsible for managing the safe use of the Bay ?

In their website :

http://www.cardiffharbour.com/harbour/home/who are we.htm

CHA states it "has a wide range of responsibilities. In addition to the operation of the Barrage, its locks, sluices and fish pass, it is responsible for safety and navigation within the Bay, the creation of Byelaws and the use of the Bay for sporting events and activities."

Not much room for doubt there ?

 

[jason -and the arguenauts]

I agree that the only way forward would be to lobby the relevant authorities but I am suprised nothing happened after that incident chucking people in the water. .

What incident was that Mat?

 

[Csail]

limit

As you all know our boat only does 6knts but the speedboat does 75 but on the plane at say 30 knts it produces less wake than going slow.The worst ones are the ribs and water busses blasting round.
We don't want more legislation in the bay.

 

[bluedragon]

We're based in Milford Haven now (though live on the edge of Cardiff Bay). There are lots of wash problems in the Haven in spite of byelaws and notices in areas such as Dale and above Lawrenny...most power boats DO obey the rules, but a significant minority don't. There are just not enough rangers to police the area, and I guess it's the same in the Bay (but easier to do).

Our dinghy was almost capsized by wash whilst returning to the boat one evening, in spite of me having flashed a torch beam at the offender. We were lucky not to end-up in the water (always wear LJs with lights now, and have a phone or hand-held with us).

A few weeks ago a power boat came into Dale making significant wash, and the boats on the visitors pontoon bounced all the place...now this pontoon as many of you know is HARD and can easily damage a hull if the fenders pop up. It occurred to me that it may be possible for boat owners to sue offenders for actual damage caused, or at least make a claim on their insurance if enough witnesses are found and photos / videos could taken. Maybe that's an approach for Cardiff Bay and other areas where this is a growing problem? It would also provide ammunition for the Harbour Authority to start taking this a bit more seriously.

 

[Allan]

This weekend.

We spent the weekend on the boat, sorting out some things left over from our French cruise and preparing the next few weeks. During the weekend there was a lot less activity than two weeks ago, when the weather was better. I still saw 4 or 5 boats breaking the 5kt limit. In the future I will take pictures and send them to the Harbour people. Note: I will only refer to the Harbour Authority when the people who should be policing the bay stop shirking their responsibilies.
Allan