Can you help? Identifying a steel boat.

[Callum24]

Hello, it would be greatly appreciated if anyone could pass on any knowledge or anywhere I could look.

So a little back story. I recently bought this boat which is my first ever boat. I love a project but my knowledge is very limited. I’m learning as I go. I’m a welder fabricator so the metal work side of things is going to be the easy part. I got this lump of rusty metal for near enough pennys I know it’s a massive project and people will probably recommend the scrap pile. But what’s the fun it that? So I have very little information on the boat. All I know is it’s a steel motor boat that’s was owned by a man who has now sadly passed and his family gave it to the boat yard to sell on. It is also called “ness navigator” and has been sitting on shore for I bealive many years. It’s located around the south east of England if that helps narrow down any chances of finding information.

I have been trying to look for a builders plate on the interior but it has been stripped out apart from the helm and was spray foam insulated. So I’m not sure if maybe it was covered up but currently going through the process or removing the insulation to further inspect the condition of the steel. Would anyone know best place to look first or anywhere else there could be a builders stamp or anything that could suggest what the boat it.

Or if anyone owns one that looks just like this that would be great.

Many thanks.

 

[NormanS]

Good luck with the project. I may be wrong, but looking at the photos, particularly the middle one, suggests to me that you have a self built boat. If that's so, you won't find a builder's plate.
If there is a builder's plate, a likely place for it would be on the inside of the transom.

 

[Callum24]

Good luck with the project. I may be wrong, but looking at the photos, particularly the middle one, suggests to me that you have a self built boat. If that's so, you won't find a builder's plate.
If there is a builder's plate, a likely place for it would be on the inside of the transom.

Thank you. I will try to look when I’m next down the boat. I’m not sure if it’s what you mean. But in the middle of the hull there is a patch where it appears to be over plated in roughly about a meter by meter square and you can see the weld on the photos.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

I agree with NormanS, that’s definitely a home built, and not a good one either. No way a commercial boatyard would produce something like that. So you won’t find a builder’s mark.

As for the designer, it might be a De Groot, or Bruce Roberts.

What is your intended use? Might do a turn as a river based live aboard, assuming the steel is in good enough shape internally.

Good luck with the refurb. That’s not a trivial project.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

If you want some inspiration as to what can be achieved in a home-built steel boat, take a look at this thread:

Thread 'Steel boat build - Almarine 1200fa'

29 Mar 2022

As requested by some of the members of the forum on my post regarding boat transport by road - I’m going to share some of the photos that I’ve taken of my boat building project that I’ve undertaken over the last eleven years or so along with a bit of a storyline/explanation of the photos posted.

The boat is an Almarine 1200fa - the hull itself is a touch under 12m overall which is extended to about 12.7m with the addition of the swim platform and is 4.3m beam. Design draught is 1.2m. The hull is a steel kit designed by Hans Alma and supplied to myself by Bonito Boats in the Netherlands...

• JOHNPEET
• Replies: 564
• Forum: Motor Boat Forum

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[Callum24]

I agree with NormanS, that’s definitely a home built, and not a good one either. No way a commercial boatyard would produce something like that. So you won’t find a builder’s mark.

As for the designer, it might be a De Groot, or Bruce Roberts.

What is your intended use? Might do a turn as a river based live aboard, assuming the steel is in good enough shape internally.

Good luck with the refurb. That’s not a trivial project.

Oh that’s not good news. I’m new to all this. Is there anything in particular that makes you say it’s a bad home build. Is it the design or just the execution of the build?

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Oh that’s not good news. I’m new to all this. Is there anything in particular that makes you say it’s a bad home build. Is it the design or just the execution of the build?

Well, take a critical look at it. Wonky lines, kinks in the toe rail and chines, lumps and bumps in the plating - nothing looks fair or straight. It wouldn’t have been designed like that.

 

[veshengro]

It's not easy to make an accurate assessment of any boat from a few photos, sometimes they just need a good scrub and a coat of paint to bring them to life. I agree that she is probably a self build and at first sight the thing that struck me was that ..kink..in the Toe rail amidships ( sorry if you already understand , but the top of the plating immediately below the orange Life Ring and high lighted in red in Sticky Finger' photo above )
Be sure to carefully check the same place over on her Port side Toe Rail and see if there is a corresponding kink. It may be just bad workmanship or, and I've seen it happen, she may have been dropped or slipped off supports at one end and ended up with a crease or kink. Go below, take up any floor boards or decking and have a good look at her bottom plates and any welding round the Keelson or longitudinal steel work amidships. See if there's any sign of bending, splits etc: Lumps and bumps on the hull can be Doctored with a Grinder,filler and paint. Not pretty but you won't sink, but major structural damage or weakening is a different story.

PS I've a bit of experience with building, fitting out and rigging steel Boats..





Finished...

 

[Minerva]

Welcome, big project for sure, but I’m sure she’ll be a grand boat once finished. You’ll be getting to know the boat intimately over the coming years, I’m sure you’ll find any issues that need addressed.

Glad there’s still some nutters around to take on such projects!

 

[Keith 66]

I can recomend the Mig welding forum, Everything to do with all sorts of welding, Im sure the welding gurus on their will give you their advice!

 

[Sticky Fingers]

The OP says he’s a professional welder / fabricator so I don’t think that’s going to be the biggest problem. The quality of what he’s starting from is IMHO a big problem, especially for someone with no boating experience and no knowledge of what ‘good’ (or ‘good enough’) should look like. Has the shell got an interior, or an engine? Is it safe?

 

[Bajansailor]

@Callum24 please do post some more photos of your new project, including some of the interior - and especially the bilges. What condition are they in?
You mention that the interior has been sprayed with foam - I presume that this was just down as far as the waterline?
She does look like she could be a Bruce Roberts design from the late 70's or early 80's.
Did she come with an engine as well?

 

[Callum24]

UPDATE:

Thanks for all the replies. To keep you all updated and answer a few questions. The boat's forward and rear cabins are completely stripped out apart from spray foam insulation that covers the roof and the walls down to what I assume is below the water line, but the very bottom of the hull is left clear for water flow to the bilge. But the wheelhouse has the floor and helm still intact. Under the wheelhouse, there is an engine, batteries, and what I believe to be a heating system. I'm still yet to know if any of it is operational. I have removed some of the foam and the steel behind looks in good condition. But the very bottom of the hull does have some pitting in roughly the front half of the hull. But don't be alarmed, I'm not going to go into this alone. I have spoken to some staff on the yard where the boat is located and there is a surveyor who will be able to come in and inspect the hull and use an ultrasound thickness gauge on the hull. So we can identify any areas of concern. I have also seen there are marks written on the outside of the hull with the thickness but the ink is faded and the lowest I could see was 4.5. But i have no infomation as to when that was done and there has been some standing rainwater but I was also informed a hole was drilled to allow water to drain, but that must be blocked now. Disregarding windows, roofs and such the only areas of concern I have so far are the anchor well that has let water in and rusted a hole in the bottom of the locker and come out the hull. But I will be able to cut that out and replate the surrounding area.

On a lighter note, one of the yard staff who also has his personal boat next to where mine is said that he believes my boat was once a hire boat on Loch Ness, that's why it called the 'Ness Navigator'.

I see a few people have speculated it may be a Bruce Roberts design. By chance, would anyone know what model it resembles? Becuase I would like to be able to find out information such as the weight, draft and so on, or are there any other ways of finding this out?

I am lacking many photos as of now, but i will be sure to get some for you guys so you can see the progress.

 

[Callum24]

@Callum24 please do post some more photos of your new project, including some of the interior - and especially the bilges. What condition are they in?
You mention that the interior has been sprayed with foam - I presume that this was just down as far as the waterline?
She does look like she could be a Bruce Roberts design from the late 70's or early 80's.
Did she come with an engine as well?

Yes, it did come with an engine. I am yet to know if it is operational tho. And yes the foam stops just below where the water line would be. Would you by any chance know what Bruce Robberts designed it could possibly be?

 

[Callum24]

Welcome, big project for sure, but I’m sure she’ll be a grand boat once finished. You’ll be getting to know the boat intimately over the coming years, I’m sure you’ll find any issues that need addressed.

Glad there’s still some nutters around to take on such projects!

Thank you for the encouragement. I think I'm going to need it.

 

[Callum24]

It's not easy to make an accurate assessment of any boat from a few photos, sometimes they just need a good scrub and a coat of paint to bring them to life. I agree that she is probably a self build and at first sight the thing that struck me was that ..kink..in the Toe rail amidships ( sorry if you already understand , but the top of the plating immediately below the orange Life Ring and high lighted in red in Sticky Finger' photo above )
Be sure to carefully check the same place over on her Port side Toe Rail and see if there is a corresponding kink. It may be just bad workmanship or, and I've seen it happen, she may have been dropped or slipped off supports at one end and ended up with a crease or kink. Go below, take up any floor boards or decking and have a good look at her bottom plates and any welding round the Keelson or longitudinal steel work amidships. See if there's any sign of bending, splits etc: Lumps and bumps on the hull can be Doctored with a Grinder,filler and paint. Not pretty but you won't sink, but major structural damage or weakening is a different story.

PS I've a bit of experience with building, fitting out and rigging steel Boats..





Finished...

Thank you for explaining in detail. The next time I'm down the boat, I will take a good look for what you are describing. And yes i think some filler may be used in the future haha.

 

[Callum24]

I agree with NormanS, that’s definitely a home built, and not a good one either. No way a commercial boatyard would produce something like that. So you won’t find a builder’s mark.

As for the designer, it might be a De Groot, or Bruce Roberts.

What is your intended use? Might do a turn as a river based live aboard, assuming the steel is in good enough shape internally.

Good luck with the refurb. That’s not a trivial project.

Im yet to have an intended use for the boat, it was more of just a project for now.

You say it could be used as a river cruiser, is that because you think it will be good at that or is the fact the desing in not suited to any calm coastal environments?

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Im yet to have an intended use for the boat, it was more of just a project for now.

You say it could be used as a river cruiser, is that because you think it will be good at that or is the fact the desing in not suited to any calm coastal environments?

More the latter. I’d personally not trust that offshore but it’s not my boat….

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Yes, it did come with an engine. I am yet to know if it is operational tho. And yes the foam stops just below where the water line would be. Would you by any chance know what Bruce Robberts designed it could possibly be?

You could try asking him..
brucerobertsorders@gmail.com

Or research
BOAT PLANS, BRUCE ROBERTS BOAT PLANS, BOAT KITS, FOUNDED 1966, OFFICIAL WEB SITE 400 boat plans SAILBOAT plans POWER BOATS; powerboats; steel BOAT PLANS; aluminum boat plans; fiberglass boat boat plans; wood epoxy boat plans, plywood boatbuilding plans,

 

[PCUK]

I agree with NormanS, that’s definitely a home built, and not a good one either. No way a commercial boatyard would produce something like that. So you won’t find a builder’s mark.

As for the designer, it might be a De Groot, or Bruce Roberts.

What is your intended use? Might do a turn as a river based live aboard, assuming the steel is in good enough shape internally.

Good luck with the refurb. That’s not a trivial project.

It's not a De-Groot. As a fabricator you will know that it is vital to get it blasted inside and out and primed as soon as any remedial work is complete. Otherwise it is a complete waste of time and money.
I'd also recommend installing pair of large, heavy duty bilge keels. These will allow her to dry out and remain upright.