Can I Offer a Day Out on My Boat As a Raffle Prize?

Habebty

Habebty

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OK, its not a palace but possibly a nice day out onthe Orwell/Stour for a couple of people....

Local Social Club is having a charity auction in aid of cancer research, and is looking for raffle prizes. Could I offer a day out on my boat without attracting all sorts of liability issues in todays litigious society?

What if someone twats their head on the boom or falls off etc. etc.
 
Nothing specific to sailing; you might equally injure someone by giving them a lift home from the club in your car and crashing it.

Personally I would, especially if the likely recipients were other club members ie known to me or at least semi-known. I'd probably say it was a trip for two people, and bring a sailing friend along as additional crew (bearing in mind I can sail the boat on my own if required).

Pete
 
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I offered a day sailing for two to my daughter's office charity auction a few years ago.
When I checked with my insurers I was told that the transaction would be regarded as a commercial operation because money had been changed hands. Therefore all insurance would be void.
As my daughter's firm were my insurers I couldn't risk going ahead so they effectively prevented themselves from accepting my offer.
 
DanTribe said:
I offered a day sailing for two to my daughter's office charity auction a few years ago.
When I checked with my insurers I was told that the transaction would be regarded as a commercial operation because money had been changed hands. Therefore all insurance would be void.
As my daughter's firm were my insurers I couldn't risk going ahead so they effectively prevented themselves from accepting my offer.
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My insurers took the opposite view.

OP needs to ask his insurers not us.
 
Let's be quite clear about who is doing what.
If you, the boat owner, are receiving payment for taking peeps out on your boat, then you need to be coded and insured appropriately.
If, out of the goodness of your heart, you are offering to take people out who have been selected by any procedure not under your control and from which you do not benefit monetarily, then you are not engaging in a commercial transaction, your boat does not need to be coded and I cannot see why your insurer would have any excuse to restrict their coverage of your boat.
Don't let the thought police spoil our ordinary little pleasures!
 
Ask Galadriel too; he runs or used to run days out for kids but insurance raised its' head, possibly also modern issues of other peoples' children; not sure how it worked out but sounds a minefield.

This question comes up every now and again, general - and my - opinion is don't do it I'm sad to say.
 
Perhaps if it is an Auction of promises, it may be viewed differently because as a bidder, you would realise it was not a day out with a commercial enterprise regulated by safety legislation, but a trip out with an 'amateur' with the inherent risk. They would decide before bidding whether or not to take the risk. Caveat emptor and all that.

Di
 
Check with your insurers.

Don't listen to the miserable mealy mouthed doomsayers.

Have a nice day out.

Personally I don't believe that its a commercial transaction - but double check with your insurers. Just make sure that they understand that you are not charging for the day out.
 
I would have thought the boat would need to be coded and the skipper commercially endorsed... people are right though - down to the insurer.

Just make sure they put it in writing if they say yes!
 
I know it is over the top, but maybe if the bidders signed a declaimer the OP would have some protection as even a bad case of sea- sickness could have a lingering affect. This could be put into the auction details so they would know before bidding.....

Di
 
I believe that strictly speaking the problem is with the MCA not the insurers. As I understand it there are only a few limited people you can take on your oat without it needing to be coded and If I remember correctly it is friends and family. Strangers on your boat even if no money has changed hands will technically mean you ned to be coded. In practice has anyone every been prosecuted for this?
 
Seven Spades said:
I believe that strictly speaking the problem is with the MCA not the insurers. As I understand it there are only a few limited people you can take on your oat without it needing to be coded and If I remember correctly it is friends and family. Strangers on your boat even if no money has changed hands will technically mean you ned to be coded. In practice has anyone every been prosecuted for this?
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I would define a 'friend' as any one daft enough to come out on my boat with me. Anyone daft enough to come twice gets upgraded to 'good friend'. No one has ever been thrice.......

Di
 
One of the people that regurarly use Talulah offered a day out for the school auction.
I contacted the insurers and they were fine about it.
They said is was a common request.
The day went ahead without incident. The real test of course is when there is an incident.
On a slightly different note I was also contacted by a film company. They wanted to check my insurance.
So I contacted the insurance company who this time said they were trying to piggy back off my insurance and their equipment should be covered by themselves.
 
Habebty said:
OK, its not a palace but possibly a nice day out onthe Orwell/Stour for a couple of people....

Local Social Club is having a charity auction in aid of cancer research, and is looking for raffle prizes. Could I offer a day out on my boat without attracting all sorts of liability issues in todays litigious society?

What if someone twats their head on the boom or falls off etc. etc.
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Galadriel and SWMBO organise an annual outing for a kids charity. Not all the boats are coded, in fact most are not. They will know.

But as you are not charging, i think its fine. Do drop a line to your insurers though.
 
Seven Spades said:
Strangers on your boat even if no money has changed hands will technically mean you ned to be coded. In practice has anyone every been prosecuted for this?
Click to expand...

Its not a question of whether people are strangers or not, its all a matter of payment. Some real myths have developed over this matter and yours (and several other posts) demonstrate that nicely.

If you meet someone on the pontoon and start chatting and they want to come for a sail you are at perfect liberty to give them a day out on your boat. They have become 'friends' in your terms. There's no way a court could decide on 'quality of friendship'!

Its where money is involved that it starts to get more complicated.

Basically, as soon as people start paying to be on board then it becomes commercial and the boat needs to be coded. You can't get away with 'making a contribution to the new Genoa', or just donating equipment. The advice I have received is that those count as payments.

The only exception is that guests, family and friends (anyone who comes sailing with you) are allowed to contribute to the day to day running costs. They can share in the cost of food and gas and harbour dues etc. but NOT pay towards maintenance, a new sail, new chart plotter etc etc.

The raffle is slightly complicated. My understanding is that they bought a 'chance' to go for a day out on a boat. They haven't paid for the day out on the boat and no money has changed hands to you the boat owner for the experience. QED its not a charter and therefore no coding.

HOWEVER it doesn't end there. I also understand that you still have a duty of care and must take reasonable and adequate safety precautions. You need to make sure you are not negligent in your care of the those who you are responsible for. Its the same as anywhere else: if there is an accident, can you show that you acted reasonably?

As others have said, check with your insurers as well, but tell them no money is changing hands or they might give the quick and easy (but wrong) answer.

Please note that I am not a lawyer and the above comes with that health warning. Although I believe that I have repeated what I have been told in various discussions with the RYA and legal people, if you want a definitive answer my suggestion would be to write to the RYA legal department yourself.
 
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john_morris_uk said:
Check with your insurers.

Don't listen to the miserable mealy mouthed doomsayers.

Have a nice day out.

Personally I don't believe that its a commercial transaction - but double check with your insurers. Just make sure that they understand that you are not charging for the day out.
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Thoroughly agree.

Pete
 
Pieces of 8

What will you do if a one-legged man with a parrot wins? Or a wheelchair user?
Perhaps the organisers should have an alternative plan if the winner of a days sailing with you can't take up the offer.
 
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