Can a Beneteau Sense cross oceans?

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mmorgan@peoplevalue.co.uk

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Age old dilemma but interested in thoughts. I purchased a Beneteau Sense 46 in the UK in 2016. A fairly well specified boat including latest raymarine gear, generator, inverter, battery monitor, elec winches etc etc. I have upgraded her for the Med to include bimini, 600w of solar, watermaker, arch, rocna anchor etc etc. I have had a season down in San Carles in western Med and she is proving to be a fine vessel. Sails well, good turn of speed, stable, very comfortable and more or less self sufficient at anchor. Also, a very important point, my wife loves the layout and the bright and modern apartment like interior. I am now planning to go further afield with sights on a circumnavigation. My immediate thoughts are to sell her on and buy a more traditional yacht for such purposes. But then again why? Is it that I am influenced by the reviews on the Sense and the general "not fit for purpose" post on all the mass production boats? Is she just a port hopping party boat? My Sense, from a set up perspective is "ready to go" and very comfortable and I am now thinking why should I follow the trends and keep her for my next adventures. I know the boat and familiar with her systems. I have been in some fairly heavy weather and she performed well and easily handled by two crew. She is of course cat A. Welcome your thoughts.
 
Welcome. You can expect a wide variety of divergent views on this forum - including some who don’t believe anything without a long keel and designed at the same time as a Morris Minor is totally unsuitable. So be prepared to sift and make your own mind up. This includes my opinions ! (Edit - it is this particular area where the Sense may differ from other Beneteau and similar boats, many of which have done successful World cruises. The other slight area of question could be a dock and go stern drive, which is ideal for coastal hopping but may be over complex if fails in far flung parts)

My view is the boat would be fine for ARC, but need to think a little before going full circumnavigation.
I don’t know the boat well, but the thing I would want to reassure myself about would be what happens when (not if) the cockpit gets flooded by an errant very large wave. Is there enough height of sill, and strength of materials, to avoid smashing windows and water going below?

Two things you might want to read
- recent YM article on the Hylas 46 - how does your boat compare to this boat that has just completed a circumnavigation
- recent Yachting World article on rogue waves
Then make your own mind up

Personally I would also compare with something like an XC45
 
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Oh yes.

She's been designed to go round the world so it would be rude not too.

The high form stability should make her a hoot in the trade winds.

I'd use the guest cabin on passage though.

Fair winds and come back and tell us about it.

______________________
 
If you don't want to sail across the Atlantic in her, have her shipped across and continue your journey that way.

People have sailed across the Atlantic in small, less sea worthy boats than yours. What no one can predict is the weather you'll experience.

Many boats do the ARC every year, you may have to do some modifications to make her more comfortable at sea, you'll also have to consider power generation as, unless you can angle your panels towards the sun, your solar panel probably won't be efficient – the days are shorter the further south you go and are often blanketed by the sails when you're sailing.

Get the right weather and it will be a breeze, get the wrong weather and it could be horible, but it would only be 25-30 days out of your whole time on board. Spending 3 days living at an angle in a sense might not be the most fun you have during her ownership, but as long as you're not beset by a serious problem, which all boats are vulnerable to, other Senses have made it across, so yours should too.

Most crews say the crossing from the Med to the Canaries is the worst bit of the crossing, if you make it that far, you can do any mods you want before the rest of the trip. Or you can re-evalute your options. :0)
 
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I was surprised how many Senses are on the 2017 entry list for the ARC.

Success in long distance cruising is as much about preparation and the capability of the crew as the boat they choose, so if you are comfortable with the boat and plan your voyage to avoid as far as possible extreme weather then ggo with the boat you have. sounds like you are aiming for enjoyment rather than challenging the elements for the sake of it.
 
Absolutely. It's your boat. It's kitted out as YOU like it. It is perfectly safe (with the certification) for the crossing.

Obviously you will have to make do with the excess of water, power, frozen food etc that a more 'suitable' boat wouldn't have but I am sure that you will cope. You won't need THAT anchor en route though!!!
 
Sounds a great spec and yes, wouldn't think it a problem. Few years ago a 46 would have been amongst the larger boats on the Arc. if you need a bit of encouragement look at the Shards, back and forth on two step (37 foot) then upgraded to Distant Shores 42 foot. Go for it and enjoy every bit (and post pics, youtube video so we all can enjoy too)
 
To give an alternate opinion there are more suitable boats. Not because the Beneteau isnt seaworthy enough mind. Even a sense 46 is quite a lively boat. Inevitably it is also not built for punishing live aboard. This means she will not track all night with minimium effort, there will be times she will feel hard pressed, and for sure she will show her miles when used day in day out. That is why I opted for an IP. My friend summed it up the first time on board, comparing the IP with his Beneteau, well he said the IP is just so sea kindly, it tracks along unphased by conditions in which the ride in my Beneteau would be much more lively. Of course, horses for courses, but on long passages of there are times you may not want to "work" the boat.

All that said, a boat you know, love and is well sorted has so many things going for it, and there are times the IP or more conventional cruisers will seem just boring. Then there is no such thing as the perfect boat I suspect, even with unlimited cash. I have skippered an 80 foot yacht, which makes my IP feel like a dinghy, but I can imagine a 120 foot yacht would give yet another perspective to ocean crossing. Perhaps with unlimited cash, but then do you recall that time when you crept up a creek in something much much smaller and were reminded of those halcoyn days.
 
Thanks all for your views. Since my original post I have been marina hopping down the coast to Valencia. Great weather out here and managed to sail most of the time. Also managed to avoid the troubles accept one protest march in Valencia which was mostly good hearted. On reflection from your comments it seems a general thumbs up to my idea. The one area which does leave me with concerns is the vast amount of electronics on board, she has the fly by wire dock and go system which is great but what if it went wrong on some lonely island in the Pacific? Ultimately the get out of jail card are the sails and steering quadrant which thankfully is still old school mechanics. Thanks again for your comments.
 
mmorgan@peoplevalue.co.uk said:
she has the fly by wire dock and go system which is great but what if it went wrong on some lonely island in the Pacific?
Click to expand...

Not familiar with the system apart from what I've read. Doesn't it use a rotating saildrive leg (plus the bow thruster and a load of smarts)? You might investigate whether it can be locked and disabled, or perhaps it defaults to locking in dead ahead in the event of failure? I'd ask Beneteau if you get no answer here.

The good news is that the system isn't likely to wear out from overuse amongst your lonely Pacific islands :encouragement:

On the subject of steering, does the boat already have self-steering? It will become your best friend (or worst enemy if not up to the job). Not something to be skimped on.
 
She does not have self steering and this is something I am investigating. Not sure how effective a hydrovane or similar would be given her design. Clearly the autopilot can do the job and am calculating to see if the solars are enough to keep her on course at the same time as the navigation systems, fridge etc. I get a charge of circa 15 amps positive running all systems during the day assuming good sun. They seem to keep pace from the few night passages I have done dropping to 89% overnight. But they then get a good boost at anchor. However not sure how the system would cope with weeks of sailing. I guess I could run the generator for a few hours a day to top up as required and run the watermaker. Power management is an area I am very interested in especially for long passages.
 
mmorgan@peoplevalue.co.uk said:
She does not have self steering and this is something I am investigating. Not sure how effective a hydrovane or similar would be given her design. Clearly the autopilot can do the job and am calculating to see if the solars are enough to keep her on course at the same time as the navigation systems, fridge etc. I get a charge of circa 15 amps positive running all systems during the day assuming good sun. They seem to keep pace from the few night passages I have done dropping to 89% overnight. But they then get a good boost at anchor. However not sure how the system would cope with weeks of sailing. I guess I could run the generator for a few hours a day to top up as required and run the watermaker. Power management is an area I am very interested in especially for long passages.
Click to expand...

A few observations on power consumption.
1 When off shore/blue water I have seen more boats waiting for electric repairs than any other problems; people appear reluctant to sail an ocean without all powered systems going. So what ever you chose make it bomb proof. Or go like me and say sod it, we can sail by hand, forget the fridge , most of the electronics are irelavent , so a bit of power for lights at night and vhf is all you need. A good cruising battery bank of 4 to 6 hundred amps at 12 volt will sail an Atlantic with zero charging if just doing the basics.
Having said all that I have never lost the ability to charge, in about 20k nm.
2. Electric autopilots eat power, my duogen making about 5-10 amps at 24 volt matches the autopilot in strong conditions with nothing to spare.
3. When I used to use engine to charge, I charged at 20 mins every 4 hours, a short blast running the batteries at about 75% worked well; this 120 mins of charging per day matched all equipment inc autopilot. Charge was from twin alternators making 140 amps if flat out.
4. On old 12 volt boat we used about 140 amps per day , that a 37 foot toy, when off shore.
5. On new boat we use a load more as autopilot is stronger and we have two fridges, probably about 100 amps at 24 volt, problem is compounded as I now use Duogen ; this is used as conditions dictate so hard to keep a record.
However on old boat 15 hours per day on the Duo matched demand.

If you are managing 15 amps on solar that is a good system, I have never had anything like that. Two things to remember, Atlantic and Pacific are not clear sun more a haze and cloud with some mornings of good sun. Other on Atlantic from my limited experience wind tends to make boat heel away from the sun, as sun is from south and wind was SE.
You may find a different wind direction that helps lean boat into clear sun.

What ever you decide be sure that your existing Bene can do it, personally I changed a Hanse 37 to a Swan 46, having sailed 2 Atlantic circuits and a whole lot more.
The Hanse was great; but I was looking for less banging , not too say I do not enjoy a bit of banging; but when you are jumping up and down and your teeth are working loose started to think I may prefer a change.
Maybe i could have found a suitable pill to overcome my reduced pleasure in banging or what ever the correct marine expression is.
 
Isn't Beneteau and Sense an oxymoron ;)

Just kidding - I have raced many in my time and whilst wouldn't be my first choice for ocean passages as said is more than capable with some modifications.
 
You can cross oceans in almost anything.
There is an element of risk though, which is a function of robustness of boat and forecasts, timing etc.
If you are asking 'is this totally safe' the answer is no, it's the ocean.
But then you could fall down the stairs at home etc.
 
Personally I reckon for Blue Water there is no substitute for lots of solar. I have three domestic 445W panels, which alone produce all the power I need even in the UK. The system is so simple and aside from the controller little to go wrong. If you are going Blue Water and remote, and if you can it is well worth having a good panel setup.
 
Thanks all for your contributions.
Can't agree more re solar and as mentioned earlier I can just about keep pace with ships demands but this also includes anchoring breaks. Will be interested to see what the drain is when the autopilot has been running for 10 hours in a lumpy sea. Anyway I have decided to take the Sense to the Caribbean then make a decision to change at that point if she proves hard work or unreliable. Also planning to add a 10HP outboard to the inventory on a swing down bracket on the stern so if all fails I have an alternative means of propulsion before calling the engineers. This is my major concern with all controls run through wires and computers and a rotating 360 degree sail drive to select forward or reverse. The adoption of a back up engine I have seen on many power boats and can't see why this cant be applied to a sailing yacht. Need to work out what the impact will be with balance (if any). Planning to join the Arc next November (2018) and take it from there after a year sailing round the Med (Greek islands next stop!).
Thanks again for all your thoughts and advice.
 
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