Campingaz butane change to Propane - is this possible ?

[superheat6k]

My intended new boat has for its gas supply stowages for two campingaz butane cylinders under one of the fly bridge seats, with insufficient height for anything dimensionally higher.

I far prefer Propane to Butane so are Propane cylinders and a suitable regulator available in a similar height to the standard Campingaz cylinder ? There is plenty of space for wider diameter cylinders.

 

[stuartwineberg]

Before you do anything, read up on the shortages of calor cylinders that are forcing people to go the other way and switch to camping gaz.

 

[sarabande]

I'd support the change to propane, and to invest in an adapter so that you can fill the CG cylinders from a big 47kg propane at home. It is very easy, safe, quick and cheap(er) to refill.

47kg propane are available as they are commercial and the supply chain is more secure, and adapters from Amazon.

adapt camping gaz to propane at DuckDuckGo

 

[harvey38]

Or get a Safefill cylinder, around £200 will get you a 5/7.5 or 10kg refillable, lightweight cylinder that uses a standard propane regulator. Sure the initial outlay is quite a lot but I just got my 7.5kg refilled for £8.75 and can be filled at Morrisons forecourts and many other places that fill LPG fuelled vehicles.
I have a place locally that fills mine, when it's getting low (they are transparent so easy to see) I bring it home from the boat, get it topped up ready to take back.

 

[superheat6k]

I'd support the change to propane, and to invest in an adapter so that you can fill the CG cylinders from a big 47kg propane at home. It is very easy, safe, quick and cheap(er) to refill.

47kg propane are available as they are commercial and the supply chain is more secure, and adapters from Amazon.

adapt camping gaz to propane at DuckDuckGo

Thanks Tim

The link takes me to a bewildering list of options. Can you advise a bit more specifically on the adaptors and regulator I would require please.

 

[Momac]

Campingaz 907 refills are not cheap. I just bought two at £36 each.
Demand for LPG from road vehicles is diminishing so that source for refilling cylinders will not be around forever.

I'd support the change to propane, and to invest in an adapter so that you can fill the CG cylinders from a big 47kg propane at home. It is very easy, safe, quick and cheap(er) to refill.

Cheaper yes .
Safe ? I guess it might be if you know what you are doing. But diy filling of gas cylinders is potentially hazardous.

 

[superheat6k]

Campingaz 907 refills are not cheap. I just bought two at £36 each.
Demand for LPG from road vehicles is diminishing so that source for refilling cylinders will not be around forever.



Cheaper yes .
Safe ? I guess it might be if you know what you are doing. But diy filling of gas cylinders is potentially hazardous.

I agree home filling can be dangerous, especially if the cylinder is overfilled and liquid locked, however the process is essentially the same as that for handling refrigerants, for which I hold the Cat 1 F Gas qualification.

 

[[70521]]

My intended new boat has for its gas supply stowages for two campingaz butane cylinders under one of the fly bridge seats, with insufficient height for anything dimensionally higher.

I far prefer Propane to Butane so are Propane cylinders and a suitable regulator available in a similar height to the standard Campingaz cylinder ? There is plenty of space for wider diameter cylinders.

Might be worth checking that the cooker is rated for propane? And, given the fire in Torquay a few weeks back, your insurance company is aware of your plans.

 

[NickRobinson]

Terribly dangerous, we're all going to die etc. Gaz costs more/kg than aerosols for filling a cigarette lighter. Crazy.
However, a 'guy I met in a pub' has done this for years. Cooker works perfectly with original regulator, propane works in cold weather, a fill costs <£5.00 instead of £35/40. Bottle fits locker. Get a digital luggage scale.

 

[fredrussell]

Hang on a minute. Are people suggesting filling blue Camping Gaz bottles with Propane? I’m pretty sure that’s a big no-no. I fill them with butane, easy peasy, but propane???

I think the only way to get propane into a gas locker designed for Camping Gaz bottles, is to use a Gaslow bottle - but check availability of places to fill it first. Many forecourts won’t do it.
Gaslow R67 2.7kg Refillable Cylinder 1 with Level Gauge

 

[earlybird]

Filling CG butane bottles with propane doesn't seem a good idea to me. I doubt if your insurance company would be enthusiastic either if it came to light. (Sorry for the pun).

 

[vyv_cox]

Terribly dangerous, we're all going to die etc. Gaz costs more/kg than aerosols for filling a cigarette lighter. Crazy.
However, a 'guy I met in a pub' has done this for years. Cooker works perfectly with original regulator, propane works in cold weather, a fill costs <£5.00 instead of £35/40. Bottle fits locker. Get a digital luggage scale.

Agreed that a scale is the answer but I am told that a bottle floating in water will sink as 80% fill is reached. Never tried it but would love to hear from someone who has.

 

[[70521]]

Gaslow R67 2.7kg Refillable Cylinder 1 with Level Gauge

£150.00 per bottle. £300.00 for a bottle and a spare. I wonder how long it takes to make any savings given that most boats use two or three bottles a year.

 

[superheat6k]

Boating can be dangerous - that might be something of its attraction.

 

[superheat6k]

Might be worth checking that the cooker is rated for propane? And, given the fire in Torquay a few weeks back, your insurance company is aware of your plans.

Why - was that due to someone using Campingaz cylinders with Propane rather than Butane ?

I was not aware the accident report was issued yet.

As long as the cylinders pressure ratings are within those required for Propane then this is not a problem. I have an orange / red Propane cylinder for my garden BBQ and that is clearly an oversprayed blue butane cylinder.

Most LPG cookers will run on 29 mBar Butane or 37 mBar propane with nil other changes.

So once the changes are made I will have the installation certified by a gas safe engineer, and once that certificate is issued the Insurance company will be satisfied. For this boat the gas installation is only for the hob, so has a single pipe from the control solenoid.

 

[[70521]]

Why - was that due to someone using Campingaz cylinders with Propane rather than Butane ?

I was not aware the accident report was issued yet.

As long as the cylinders pressure ratings are within those required for Propane then this is not a problem. I have an orange / red Propane cylinder for my garden BBQ and that is clearly an oversprayed blue butane cylinder.

Most LPG cookers will run on 29 mBar Butane or 37 mBar propane with nil other changes.

So once the changes are made I will have the installation certified by a gas safe engineer, and once that certificate is issued the Insurance company will be satisfied. For this boat the gas installation is only for the hob, so has a single pipe from the control solenoid.

As long as you satisfy your insurance company then you will be covered.

I have no idea what the cause of the fire on the boat in Torquay was, just sighting it as an example of what can happen when things go wrong.

I look forward to reading the MAIB report.

 

[vyv_cox]

Might be worth checking that the cooker is rated for propane? And, given the fire in Torquay a few weeks back, your insurance company is aware of your plans.

My motorhome has a bulkhead regulator that takes either 100% propane (Calor or Repsol) or French Autogas that is about 50/50 propane/butane. In the van I carry a gas fired barbecue that may run on Camping Gaz or Calor butane, propane from a bottle regulator or Autogas from a fitting on the van. Quite honestly I cannot tell the difference in flame height between any of them.

 

[Steve_N]

As long as the cylinders pressure ratings are within those required for Propane then this is not a problem. I have an orange / red Propane cylinder for my garden BBQ and that is clearly an oversprayed blue butane cylinder.

I'm a long time DIY refiller of gas bottles but I do baulk at putting propane into Camping Gaz cylinders.
Camping Gaz cylinders are stamped on the skirt as pressure tested to 15 bar while Calor Gas propane cylinders are marked as pressure tested to 30 bar (perhaps Calor butane are too - I don't know).
I believe that propane bottle pressures are 10x those of butane at circa 10 bar and Goggle seems to suggest that in the worst case, i.e very hot day and direct sunlight, 15 bar may be cutting it fine.

Then there is the cylinders' simple-looking ball bearing in a seat in place of a positive shut off valve to consider too.
Just seems a bit too risky to me.

 

[Refueler]

When I moved my UK boat to Latvia .. it had the typical Calor Gas Butane format Hob / Oven combo. Must be thousands of boats / caravans out there with same.

Latvia does not have Butane only - with winters dipping to -30C or even lower .... Propane with small proportion of Butane is the norm. It is possible to have higher Butane / Propane mix but need request. (My company was contracted to Latvian Gas Co to test ... we were only Gas Testing in Baltic States at that time).

So what to do ? Change the burners or even the whole setup ? No - I just changed the regulator to one generally available here. When my UK ballon ran out - I swapped regulator and put local ballon in and never noticed any difference to 'flame' .....
Full English comes up just as good !!

 

[jdc]

...Most LPG cookers will run on 29 mBar Butane or 37 mBar propane with nil other changes...

I agree that there will not be any problem changing between Butane and Propane, but in fact appliances such as cookers, and regulators, for boats and caravans have been 30 mBar for both gasses since 2003, and have to be so to comply with the regs, the relevant one being BS EN 1949.