Camping Gas 907 Refill Cost

VicS said:
Because the pressure in a propane bottle is very much higher than in a butane bottle. Camping gas bottles are designed for butane. They may well not be safe to use at the pressure of propane. There is certainly no reason for them to have been tested for use at the pressure of propane.
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Hi Vic-Thanks for the info- am I correct reading 100% propane can top off 14bar at 40C? My Port Ellen cylinder has a 30bar stamp. Again to all, I'd never recommend filling or fill cylinders myself, the 1/6th cost and winter usage on a boat that only can get Gaz in the locker isn't worth it.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Doesn't that say more about your cruising grounds, though?
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I thought that too. I spent 3.5 months this summer sailing up and down the west coast of Scotland and eating out opportunities are few and far between in places like North Rona and Loch Scavaig. Food shopping can be tricky too. We know Andy likes his comforts.
 
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NickRobinson said:
Hi Vic-Thanks for the info- am I correct reading 100% propane can top off 14bar at 40C? My Port Ellen cylinder has a 30bar stamp. Again to all, I'd never recommend filling or fill cylinders myself, the 1/6th cost and winter usage on a boat that only can get Gaz in the locker isn't worth it.
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Looks like about 13bar at 40C but IIRC commercial propane contains some butane but I forget how much.
 
907 cylinder refill costs in the UK are a complete rip off.
Little gas was used on our last boat so the cost was not great.
We now have a boat with an oven which seems to be consuming a lot of gas ! But I have had some much nicer meals aboard so I shouldn't complain. The cost of the gas plus food (and drink) from the supermarket is certainly far less than the cost of eating out.
 
MartynG said:
907 cylinder refill costs in the UK are a complete rip off.
Little gas was used on our last boat so the cost was not great.
We now have a boat with an oven which seems to be consuming a lot of gas ! But I have had some much nicer meals aboard so I shouldn't complain. The cost of the gas plus food (and drink) from the supermarket is certainly far less than the cost of eating out.
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you might go on holiday with Full Circle nxt year then, he is in a Tight-wad holiday in Holland as we type
 
JumbleDuck said:
Doesn't that say more about your cruising grounds, though? This year I was biffing around the Irish Sea, staying manly in marinas, and didn't cook on board very much. During last year's jaunt around the west coast of Scotland I bankrupted myself at the Boathouse on Gigha, treated the crew to a meal out in Mallaig and a curry in Ardrishaig and that was it ... every other meal for four weeks cooked on board, partly because I wanted to but mainly because there ain't much alternative when you're anchored in the erse end of nowhere.
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I completely agree, if I was in your area I'd be much keener on cooking aboard still.

When food ashore was much less available, and we were broke teenagers anyway, we thought ' Luxury ! ' if we had a Vesta Meal ( I'd still like to meet whoever said ' serves 2 ' down a dark alley ) - and once re-entered the Solent down to cornflakes & water...

Can't you go and lay in wait for a passing Haggis, or take a shotgun and pepper the thing as it goes by in ground effect the same way as the chinless wonders around here treat Pheasants ? :rolleyes:
 
VicS said:
Looks like about 13bar at 40C but IIRC commercial propane contains some butane but I forget how much.
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Autogas, like what I use in the DS, is a propane-butane mix. They vary the amount of butane with the seasons, so you get a bit more in summer to raise the boiling point a bit. Camping Gaz also contains some propane, but I haven't been able to find out how much.
 
Seajet said:
Can't you go and lay in wait for a passing Haggis, or take a shotgun and pepper the thing as it goes by in ground effect the same way as the chinless wonders around here treat Pheasants ? :rolleyes:
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Not before the 12th August, old boy, and by then the Scottish sailing season has been over for a couple of months.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Doesn't that say more about your cruising grounds, though? This year I was biffing around the Irish Sea, staying manly in marinas, and didn't cook on board very much. During last year's jaunt around the west coast of Scotland I bankrupted myself at the Boathouse on Gigha, treated the crew to a meal out in Mallaig and a curry in Ardrishaig and that was it ... every other meal for four weeks cooked on board, partly because I wanted to but mainly because there ain't much alternative when you're anchored in the erse end of nowhere.
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JDuck Fully agree with you, but even in the North meals ashore are no longer so hard to find ashore. All over the quality can be questioned you get good ones and bad meals ashore... Still leaves the question how many bottles do you buy in a year?

Sailfree said:
I think you reflect exactly the attitude that enables anything to do with yachting to be sold at an inflated price
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To be honest I go camping the same way x 2. Cooking is not always a pleasure to me. A hard days sail and I cannot be bothered with it, meal out fish and chips or even sail to Harry Ramsens :D

Believe me I am not the kind of Yachty that allows everything to sold at inflated prices. Eating ashore is not the sole preserve of yachties :rolleyes:, its just others call it going out for a meal :D. In fact there are places I do avoid as they are just there for rich yachties and foodies. You will find me having fish and chips on the front down the road....

parsifal said:
Life sounds very pleasant and civilised on your boat. I'll bet you have no difficulty finding a crew! :encouragement:
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Not certain how to take that one... My problem is there are not many people who have schedules that say yes I can go sailing tomorrow, I cannot predict where I am going to be from one day to next...

Those that come sailing with me want to come back its just being available when I am thats the problem!!!

Hence SWMBO is looking to get her own boat so she can sail when she wants to!
 
JumbleDuck said:
Autogas, like what I use in the DS, is a propane-butane mix. They vary the amount of butane with the seasons, so you get a bit more in summer to raise the boiling point a bit. Camping Gaz also contains some propane, but I haven't been able to find out how much.
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Some of the cartridges are I believe a butane/propane mix but I thought that Calor butane, and Camping Gaz in refillable cylinders , was nominally pure butane, at least with no significant % age of propane. I am sure that is what I discovered when I looked into it.
 
I was always under the impression that Calor is Propane and Gaz Butane, or does this change / mix with the smaller cylinders which is what I - probably mistakenly - read into previous posts ?

I know plenty of cruising boats, and my parents' camper van, carry regulators to fit either type; Calor seemingly the better value - as used by UK mobile homes etc - but Gaz being more available abroad...
 
onesea said:
JDuck Fully agree with you, but even in the North meals ashore are no longer so hard to find ashore. All over the quality can be questioned you get good ones and bad meals ashore... Still leaves the question how many bottles do you buy in a year?
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I get through a 907 in a fortnight or so when I'm cooking on board. No calorifier, so that includes boiling water for washing up.

The biggest nuisance this year was forgetting that Camping Gaz is bloody hard to find on the other side of the North Channel. The people at Carrickfergus Marina were extremely helpful and asked around, but nobody there knew anywhere that stocks it and Google couldn't come up with an agent anywhere in NI. Luckily it turned out that Bangor Marina keep 'em in stock - and, I gather, sell an awful lot of them. I suspect they have them brought across from Scotland.
 
VicS said:
Some of the cartridges are I believe a butane/propane mix but I thought that Calor butane, and Camping Gaz in refillable cylinders , was nominally pure butane, at least with no significant % age of propane. I am sure that is what I discovered when I looked into it.
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I was going by memory and the wikipedia article on Campingaz, which cites http://www.motorcaravanning.com/vehicles/bottled_gas.htm as its source for the mixture ... though having now followed it, that article is very hazy about it. So you may well be right, though I think it's also possible that there is a dash of propane in there.

Seajet said:
I was always under the impression that Calor is Propane and Gaz Butane, or does this change / mix with the smaller cylinders which is what I - probably mistakenly - read into previous posts ?
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Red Calor is propane (typically seen in 47kg cylinders for heating and cooking but available in smaller sizes) and blue Calor is butane. Campingaz is - and I'll happily take VicS's word on this - apparently pure butane.
 
Seajet said:
I was always under the impression that Calor is Propane and Gaz Butane, or does this change / mix with the smaller cylinders which is what I - probably mistakenly - read into previous posts ?

I know plenty of cruising boats, and my parents' camper van, carry regulators to fit either type; Calor seemingly the better value - as used by UK mobile homes etc - but Gaz being more available abroad...
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Calor butane is butane. If JD is right it also contains a proportion of propane . I don't think he is right though.

Calor propane is propane but I am sure containing some butane.

Camping Gaz, at least in the refillable cylinders, is the same as Calor butane.The cylinders are refilled by Calor

Propane is stored at a much higher pressure than butane ... see the charts posted earlier.

At one time they were used at different pressures, hence the different regulators but nowadays there are dual fuel regulators and appliances that enable the gas to be swapped between butane and propane with only the cylinder pigtail hose having to be changed to accommodate either type of cylinder. A bit of a compromise I suspect, esp when using propane.

For the user the main difference is the fact that propane can be used at much lower temperatures due to its low boiling point whereas butane cannot be used effectively below about 2-3C.

The snag as you point out is that the Calor gases are not available abroad whereas Camping gaz is very widely available. Adaptor valves that fit the Camping Gaz cylinders enable them to be easily used in place of Calor butane cylinders.
 
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Seajet said:
Thanks VicS,

but I tend to go along with Jumbleducks' theory, for that price it must consist of the tears from red squirrels & Griffons, and angel farts !
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Good Lord no. Red squirrel tears are as cheap as chips on the IOW and in the north of Scotland. Griffons tears plentiful in wales but you've obviously not bought angel farts recently.
 
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