Calor 4.5 Butane and 3.5 Propane to be discontinued

[chrisD]

does the bottle have to be vertical? I could lie a 7kg down in the locker designed for two 4.5kg bottles.

 

[lustyd]

does the bottle have to be vertical? I could lie a 7kg down in the locker designed for two 4.5kg bottles.

Yes and no. You need some chamber somewhere for the liquid gas to boil off into gas gas. In theory that doesn't have to be inside the bottle but it is the normal place and for this it needs to be vertical. Forklifts don't have the bottle vertical, for instance

 

[st599]

does the bottle have to be vertical? I could lie a 7kg down in the locker designed for two 4.5kg bottles.

Yes, otherwise you draw off the liquid, not the gas.

 

[st599]

Yes and no. You need some chamber somewhere for the liquid gas to boil off into gas gas. In theory that doesn't have to be inside the bottle but it is the normal place and for this it needs to be vertical. Forklifts don't have the bottle vertical, for instance

Don't forklifts have internal pipework in the bottle to draw off from the top?

 

[chrisD]

I agree it doesn’t sound like a good idea, but folk might be desperate. We got pretty close on a long cruise last summer.

 

[st599]

I agree it doesn’t sound like a good idea, but folk might be desperate. We got pretty close on a long cruise last summer.

It's not really a case of being desperate

Using a vertical tank in a horizontal position—particularly on a cold day, before the liquid LP in the hose can vaporize—may allow liquid LPG to flow to the burner, giving you the equivalent of a poor-man’s flame thrower when trying to make that morning cup of coffee. This could also occur on warmer days, because of the boat’s hobby-horsing. Safe Options for Stowing LPG on Deck - Practical Sailor

 

[Big John]

Don't forklifts have internal pipework in the bottle to draw off from the top?

Gas bottles for forklifts when fitting horizontally are clearly marked for the correct orientation of the bottle when installing on the forklift.

 

[lustyd]

Don't forklifts have internal pipework in the bottle to draw off from the top?

Yes they obviously have something, my point was that it is possible, just not usual. I'd assume they have an external expansion tank that ensures they get gas rather than liquid but I have no knowledge of how they work.

 

[Daverw]

Forktruck bottles have an internal vent tube pointing up inside so pulls gas, it’s marked on the outside otherwise would pull liquid until half empty.

 

[NormanS]

7kg Calor Butane cylinders are made to suit a clip-on regulator, not a remote regulator. If the cylinder is mounted on its side, liquid instead of gas will go straight into the regulator. To put it mildly, I don't think that would be a good idea.

 

[lustyd]

7kg Calor Butane cylinders are made to suit a clip-on regulator, not a remote regulator. If the cylinder is mounted on its side, liquid instead of gas will go straight into the regulator. To put it mildly, I don't think that would be a good idea.

You can get remote regulators though, and clip on connectors without regulators. I'm not saying it would be a good idea, but there's no reason the liquid couldn't be piped to a secondary container, as long as it was higher than the high point of the tank that container would allow liquid to boil before the regulator.

As I said though, not saying it's a good idea.

 

[Aja]

And I have just bought a refilled 15kg Blue Calor at Morrisons-------£50.35 !!!!

What do you mean by a refilled 15Kg? You were able to refill yourself or was already filled by Calor but sold by Morrisons?

 

[boomerangben]

You can get remote regulators though, and clip on connectors without regulators. I'm not saying it would be a good idea, but there's no reason the liquid couldn't be piped to a secondary container, as long as it was higher than the high point of the tank that container would allow liquid to boil before the regulator.

As I said though, not saying it's a good idea.

Whilst you are of course technically correct, in practice on boats, or indeed any other application, having a separate boil off compartment doesn’t happen so to suggest it as an option is perhaps misleading. Getting liquid gas into you stove might prove lethal. My dad was in the LPG business and even storing or transporting a cylinder on its side is a no no. It is also why you have to be extremely careful not to over fill a cylinder. Forklift cylinders are specials as already stated

 

[chrisD]

Whilst you are of course technically correct, in practice on boats, or indeed any other application, having a separate boil off compartment doesn’t happen so to suggest it as an option is perhaps misleading. Getting liquid gas into you stove might prove lethal. My dad was in the LPG business and even storing or transporting a cylinder on its side is a no no. It is also why you have to be extremely careful not to over fill a cylinder. Forklift cylinders are specials as already stated

Well there’s an accident waiting to happen given that Calor, in order to “improve customer service” are exchanging 4.5s for 7s. These will inevitably have to be stored in general purpose lockers where they can fall over. And someone somewhere will lie one down in a two bottle locker.

 

[KAM]

Conversation in Go outdoors today. "I understand I can swap my 4.5kg for a 7kg. That's right sir. OK good I'll have one. Sorry we don't have any and don't know when they will be in. Deliveries are very erratic and we don't know what they will deliver or when." It's turning into a total joke now.

 

[Bodach na mara]

Being p*ssed off with Calor and wondering when they will next let us down if we change to the 7kg cylinders, I have been looking at refillable cylinders from Gaslow, Flogas etc. These can " be easily refilled at Autogas pumps " at a fraction of the cost of Calor butane. Unfortunately there are a few problems.
The initial cost of a cylinder is high.
There are very few Autogas pumps near the sailing waters where I cruise.
One of these pumps is supposed to be at th filling station in Tarbert Lochfyne. Which has been closed for several years!
And finally it seems to be generally known that automotive gas is being withdrawn within the next two years.

 

[Momac]

And finally it seems to be generally known that automotive gas is being withdrawn within the next two years.

So it seems
The following dated May 2022
Major retailer to phase out LPG stations by 2024 – replaced by EV charging points | Hagerty UK

 

[Bodach na mara]

Regarding whether bottles need to be vertical or not, I understood that they in automotive applications the fuel is withdrawn as a liquid to get the mass flow rate needed for the power output. This is known as liquid offtake and is why the bottles are horizontal in forklift trucks (and in the boots of taxis in Canadian cities when I visited last.)

Liquid offtake can be frightening if it is for a cooker as has been said. I have experienced this once when for some reason I changed over to a fresh cylinder while making tea during a very rough passage. The new bottle must have been overfilled.

 

[Mudisox]

What do you mean by a refilled 15Kg? You were able to refill yourself or was already filled by Calor but sold by Morrisons?

Exchanged an empty one for a full one, but at what price!

 

[DoubleEnder]

Man this is bad news. I used to have an alcohol stove, Origo. It was fine, just a couple of burners, a bit of a faff to fill. But fine. Limited. But fine.

Sold that boat 18 months ago and now starting to look for an AWB in my dotage and I was thinking ah it will be nice, to have a gas cooker, oven and grill and all to make good dinners on board. My old boat was old school we didn’t even have a table. Boiling the kettle was heroic. I was looking forward to some proper on board domestic amenities - and now this!

Looks like refillable bottles aren’t going to be viable for long. So should I just get a big MF motorsailer and strap a 47 kg Flogas red to the mast? Classy look. I gave away 5 of those big cylinders when I moved house…..

I’m annoyed. I missed the golden age of on board cooking.

What’s the alternative? A coal fired Sardine? Back to the (now unavailable ) Origo? Salad? Diesel cooker ? Golf? Sheesh

Haven’t even bought a boat yet and already problems.