KevinV
Well-Known Member
Only if you need medical advice that you could Google quicker.
Calling for help
- Thread starter DanTribe
- Start date
ylop
Well-Known Member
911 *MAY* work on a mobile device - there is no requirement for it to do so as far as I am aware - it is a function of the phone not the telephone network, it will not work on a landline. 112 will work in the UK and has for 30+ yrs. There are various myths 112 works better, which have been widely debunked but are potentially true compared to 911, e.g. the automatical cell tower location (and GPS if available) only seems to work on 999/112.Doesn't matter - dial 999, 911 or the European 112 in the UK and you get the 999 operator.
I agree with most else that you say though
KevinV
Well-Known Member
Interesting - I knew 112 worked (because I did it by accident, misremembering 101), I assumed that in the modern era the same would be true for 911 - it would be so easy to implement now.
DreadShips
Well-Known Member
On the teenage point, I volunteer with St John Ambulance and (although a self-selecting group) the cadets all seem to know 999. That you can request the coastguard is often news to them though, but then we're a fair distance from the sea...
The biggest reason we have to drill them to call 999 when we're doing scenarios though is their understandable instinct to try and tell or show us how to treat the casualty, rather than ensuring help is on its way. That's not unique to teenagers and I suspect in the real world is a genuine source of delay - people will first try to "fix" the situation themselves. Regardless of what I thought was the best method to use I'd try to emphasise that calling for help IS the first step in solving something like an MOB.
The biggest reason we have to drill them to call 999 when we're doing scenarios though is their understandable instinct to try and tell or show us how to treat the casualty, rather than ensuring help is on its way. That's not unique to teenagers and I suspect in the real world is a genuine source of delay - people will first try to "fix" the situation themselves. Regardless of what I thought was the best method to use I'd try to emphasise that calling for help IS the first step in solving something like an MOB.
ylop
Well-Known Member
one of the difficulties with 911 on a landline is that local phone numbers allowed (aaaaa)911xxx or (aaaa)911xxxx in the range of numbers. Because on a landline you can dial a local phone number without an area code - to enable it for the whole phone network like 112 is - you need to renumber anyone who's local number starts 911... or prevent people using local numbers. Mobile handset models also sold in North America are likely to sort it out for the user but models which were intended only for use in the EU may not.
ylop
Well-Known Member
A very self-selecting group! I used to do something similar a very long time ago (before most people had a mobile) and we used to make them actually make a call (on a special phone network where 999 routed to another phone in a separate room). Even adults often struggled to get useful information across the first time. I work with people in their 20s who just don't answer the phone - and if you do get them to pick up a phone, they definitely don't have a telephone manner!
Do they know they can't* ask for Mountain Rescue? That often confuses and surprises people as much as the availability of the CG (lots of people think they should call "the lifeboat" - I've no idea what happens if you try that, I suspect the BT staff are trained to route to CG?). It is a bit of a mess though - on Loch Lomond the "correct" process is to call the police, on Windermere its the coastguard! In some places the fire service will actually be who turns up!
*I also assume that if you do, it doesn't really matter because (a) the operators are trained; (b) an unknown/unclear request is going to the police anyway. But my last first aid course was delivered by an MRT instructor and he was really trying to reiterate that if you can't see how two people could easily carry you to a road don't call the ambulance - its a natural "habit" for a broken leg or chest pain - the ambulance service will try their best to deal with it themselves first, which means an ambulance, perhaps a sort/hart team and then after you've been lying on the ground for an hour or two someone call the police and gets the MRT, who have to muster and travel to the location.
KevinV
Well-Known Member
Interesting, thank you
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
I often wonder this walking on the South Downs. What to do in places that aren't challenging to physically get to but have no road access and are a very long carry.
finestgreen
Well-Known Member
There is Lowland Rescue - I'm not certain (I only really know they exist!) but I think they'd typically get called out by the police as required:
Member Teams
Lucky Duck
Well-Known Member
Reference the ‘red button’, are people expecting the CG to send help on the basis of an undesignated distress without the follow on voice call?
ylop
Well-Known Member
Yes. If your transmit a DSC with no voice call, cg will attempt to call you. If you don’t respond they will make an all ships call but I’ve heard them mobilise help in this situation - I don’t see how they can do anything other than assume you were sinking, on fire, incapacitated and this was your only option. The best/most appropriate help may get to you quicker with a voice call to add detail.
winch2
Well-Known Member
There is no one size fits all. Imagine being in a small group of differing abilities in a heaving sea and the casualty is pumping blood all over the place ie... the injury is severe and they're on the way out. Trying to focus on anything other than stopping the bleeding will test even the most priority focused.
Biggles Wader
Well-Known Member
And focusing on the casualty would be the right thing to do if they were bleeding out in front of you. No use saving a few seconds or even minutes if the emergency services only get there in time to cart away a body. Similarly if confronted with a cardiac arrest the best thing to do is start chest compressions immediately rather than faff about calling 999. That might save the patient but any delay will reduce their chances very quickly.
finestgreen
Well-Known Member
This isn't true in most circumstances for an adult, as I understand it. There's little point in CPR if help isn't coming.
Biggles Wader
Well-Known Member
Yes and no! The initial and rapid application of chest compressions is the thing that is most likely to restart the heart. If that doesn't work then yes other more specialist methods will be required, but their success rate is low, so summoning help is secondary to giving initial help.
ylop
Well-Known Member
The current European Resuscitation Council guidelines disagree with you: [EMS = Emergency Medical Services]
"A lone bystander with a mobile phone should dial the EMS number, activate the speaker or another hands-free option on the mobile phone and immediately start CPR assisted by the dispatcher. If you are a lone rescuer and you have to leave a victim to alert the EMS, activate the EMS first and then start CPR."
Source: ERC Guidelines
DreadShips
Well-Known Member
Sure - and it's not every situation where we really want to see them calling for help at all (a burn isn't always critical, for example). But for the serious stuff it gets hammered in - CPR keeps some oxygen going round but on its own is unlikely to save somebody. Shout for help, get somebody to call an ambulance, send somebody for a defibrillator if you know one is nearby... but don't waste ten minutes before you think to do it.
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
Seems like first steps these days are go through the victims pockets, then film them and upload it to the Internet.
It's what super smart phones are for........
It's what super smart phones are for........
Biggles Wader
Well-Known Member
Given that the guidelines change frequently(every couple of years from my memories in the "business")it's sometimes useful to keep to basic principles. My first principle has always been that immediate cpr gives the best chance.
ylop
Well-Known Member
The guidelines do change from time to time (the "current" guidance is 2021, but a new draft had been out for consultation and should be finalised later this year) - and because clinical trials are a bit hard to do in this setting are based on basic principles and experience from thousands of cases across multiple countries by internationally recognised experts in emergency medicine. I believe the current draft doesn't change the get help guidance. Your own personal resuscitation guidelines are likely never going to be critiqued in an amatuer setting but I'm not sure you can justify arguing your advice is better than the european expert body. Especially if you are basing it on this:
If that doesn't work then yes other more specialist methods will be required, but their success rate is low, so summoning help is secondary to giving initial help.
About 1/4 of out of hospital cardiac arrests are believed to have initially shockable rythyms, for cardiac causes with a bystander around and an initially shockable rythym over 50% will have a return of spontaneous circulation. After the first few minutes the probability of success falls roughly exponentially the longer CPR continues. The last time I saw stats on success of CPR alone it was a heavily caveated "<5%" with the caveat that in most cases there is uncertainty over whether the patient was actually in cardiac arrest to start with. This:
The initial and rapid application of chest compressions is the thing that is most likely to restart the heart.
seems to have been largely shown to be wrong - its a chain of survival without that your odd for the next steps fall but CPR alone is very unlikely to be the answer. Maintaining effective CPR as a solo bystander (otherwise there is no need to debate the help or cpr first point) is very unlikely to be possible on a yacht - you need professional help and equipment ASAP but you also need other help to share the workload until that arrives.