Calling for help

DanTribe

DanTribe

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I've entered a regatta and the SIs call for me to give a safety briefing. I will have young and fairly inexperienced crew who are phone savvy but not so used to VHF. Racing will be mostly inshore.
In case of medical emergency would you advise a 999 call or tell them to call the Coastguard?
I've heard some recent calls when CG goes through a lengthy checklist before dispatching help. I'm not sure my youngsters have the patience.
 
A total no brainer - VHF Call to the CG. Other boats will hear it and may be able to assist. If in the red mist of panic they don't use the usual wording that really, really does not matter.

The checklist is there for a reason - instruct your crew to answer the questions when asked - it is a 'wake up and smell the coffee time'. Get them to do the VHF work allowing you thinking time to problem solve the situation. The questions will have been thought through and are asked for a reason. It gets the crew to think about what they should be doing in something that is new to them, keeps the comms going (rather reassuring) and gives the GC time to assess what the problem is and devise a plan. There will be a lot going on in the background that you are unaware of.

The questions will be the same on the phone!

ONLY use the phone if the CG don't respond on CH16.
 
It might help them as part of briefing to have a printed sheet of answers to the stock CG questions up near the vhf ( life jackets on, people on board any children etc anchor etc) plus advise them the cg on the end of radio might not have any local knowledge so importance of a data position and how they get this.
 
One other thing for the safety briefing, quoting someone here, years ago,

"This is a safety line. Clip it to the boat and it will keep you from falling overboard. This is a life jacket. It will help the lifeboat retrieve your body if you do fall overboard."

In my view, life jackets should be worn at all times by inexperienced crew, and by everyone when racing.
 
DanTribe said:
I've entered a regatta and the SIs call for me to give a safety briefing. I will have young and fairly inexperienced crew who are phone savvy but not so used to VHF. Racing will be mostly inshore.
In case of medical emergency would you advise a 999 call or tell them to call the Coastguard?
I've heard some recent calls when CG goes through a lengthy checklist before dispatching help. I'm not sure my youngsters have the patience.
Click to expand...
That's an unusual item for the SIs...

In a medical emergency that has no bearing on the safety of the yacht or others on board I would say that a 999 call is probably just as good, if not better, as it gets you patched through to 999 call handlers who get more practice in helping with medical emergencies than the coastguard. And will be capable of lasing with the coastguard in the event of needing helicopter evacuation etc.

If the emergency is boat as well as medical, then coastguard second, but a call on the regatta VHF channel first - those people are the closest and should be the best able to offer the first help.
 
I don't know if they still have them but Reeds Almanac if I remember rightly had a printed checklist of emergency VHF proceduere with blanks left to fill in your own details. I have mine dully filled in and posted up by the VHF radio. Well worth making one up and keeping it displayed by the radio as ashtead as already suggested.
 
When I brief inexperienced crew I always show them how to press the red DSC Button, explaining this sends the boat identification and location automatically. I also explain the principle of “press to talk”, release to listen - and advise that they say the nature of distress (eg skipper MOB if they are needing to do this) and a verbal description of location (eg W of Bute).
But I also warn them they may get a host of questions back and if busy simply to tell the Coastguard (a) you can see our position in AIS; and (b) all our other boat details are already on your database (SafeTrx).
Spelling out call sign (never used in 50 years), MMSI etc is pointless waste of time. They already have colour of hull etc, but never seem to refer to their own database.
 
Stemar said:
One other thing for the safety briefing, quoting someone here, years ago,

"This is a safety line. Clip it to the boat and it will keep you from falling overboard. This is a life jacket. It will help the lifeboat retrieve your body if you do fall overboard."

In my view, life jackets should be worn at all times by inexperienced crew, and by everyone when racing.
Click to expand...
If it is inshore racing round the buoys, then I would 100% advise against tethers. You will cause a hundred trips, tangles, slow reactions etc for every 1 person you prevent from falling over the side. Offshore is of course completely different. Of note is that the OSR for cat 4 racing (i.e inshore racing in daylight) does not require tethers to even be on the boat.

Lifejackets when racing inshore is about personal risk management. As skipper I always make it clear that if anyone wants to wear one on a light day when I don't mandate them then they are welcome to, but when I say they are to be worn then there is no argument. Some of the crew wear them almost all the time, others only when I make it mandatory. The only argument I had recently was that 1 crew wanted to wear his own, and when I asked when it was last serviced he looked blank. I told him I'd "much prefer" him to wear one of mine that get professionally serviced every winter.
 
DanTribe said:
I've entered a regatta and the SIs call for me to give a safety briefing. I will have young and fairly inexperienced crew who are phone savvy but not so used to VHF. Racing will be mostly inshore.
In case of medical emergency would you advise a 999 call or tell them to call the Coastguard?
I've heard some recent calls when CG goes through a lengthy checklist before dispatching help. I'm not sure my youngsters have the patience.
Click to expand...
Have I understood correctly that you will be sailing a boat with a group of youngsters and the sailing instructions require you to provide a safety briefing to your crew? You are unsure if they should (a) use the radio or phone and (b) if they should call CG or Ambulance on 999?

I'm going to be brutally blunt, if you don't know the answer to these questions should you really be taking a young inexperienced crew to sea?

Presumably, if they are making the call for help you are the casualty (otherwise you would at least be able to say Phone/Radio/CG/Amb at the time). Assuming you have a DSC radio I cannot see any better way for a now entirely inexperienced crew to summons help then lift flap hold down button. Otherwise you are assuming that crew can get you back ashore, and accurately relay the position and time they will be there to the ambulance service.

Young people in a distress situation likely have more patience than the old gits who think they know it all. I suspect part of the reason for some questions is to calm the situation down. By the time you've answered all the questions, in a race, you probably have another boat on its way to help.

My new crew briefing also includes: boom safety, winches (and fingers on other ropes), a man over board process of "shout, point, red flap on radio", when we wear lifejackets (or clip on on lively days). Most importantly it covers how to use the head! If they are interested / attentive or I've no regular crew I point out fire extinguishers, first aid kit and throw lines.
 
dunedin said:
When I brief inexperienced crew I always show them how to press the red DSC Button, explaining this sends the boat identification and location automatically. I also explain the principle of “press to talk”, release to listen - and advise that they say the nature of distress (eg skipper MOB if they are needing to do this) and a verbal description of location (eg W of Bute).
But I also warn them they may get a host of questions back and if busy simply to tell the Coastguard (a) you can see our position in AIS; and (b) all our other boat details are already on your database (SafeTrx).
Spelling out call sign (never used in 50 years), MMSI etc is pointless waste of time. They already have colour of hull etc, but never seem to refer to their own database.
Click to expand...
I've heard a few maydays from vessels where the "skipper" was now incapacitated and the CG change their questions from MMSI etc. to "do you know how to slow down!".
 
flaming said:
That's an unusual item for the SIs...

In a medical emergency that has no bearing on the safety of the yacht or others on board I would say that a 999 call is probably just as good, if not better, as it gets you patched through to 999 call handlers who get more practice in helping with medical emergencies than the coastguard. And will be capable of lasing with the coastguard in the event of needing helicopter evacuation etc.

If the emergency is boat as well as medical, then coastguard second, but a call on the regatta VHF channel first - those people are the closest and should be the best able to offer the first help.
Click to expand...
Good call about regatta VHF. The radio will already be on that channel and help close at hand. I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible.
I guess I should include
"in case the old geezer keels over".
 
I'm really curious about the SI clause - are they available online, and are you happy to link to them?
 
flaming said:
I'm really curious about the SI clause - are they available online, and are you happy to link to them?
Click to expand...
Well, I must have read more into it than it said, imagined it, or they have been changed. Anyway the clause is not there. (Burnham Week)
A safety briefing not a bad idea anyway.
Regarding my original query, they recommend calling 999 OR Channel 16. and give a recommended landing place for casualties.
 
In terms of the boat's position, it is worth them having What Three Words (an app) which identifies a defined position very well (better than lat and long for these purposes, because of ease) and as an app they will be used to how it works. They would just tell the CG the boat's position is "XYZ'
 
FWIW, I show new crew how to stop the boat (sort of hove to), press the red button and don't forget to release the talk button. There's a mayday crib sheet by the radio.

If there are two of them then one keeps eyes on the casualty.

Any more detail seems to overload them and they'll probably forget it in the kerfuffle anyway - so I keep it simple.
 
DanTribe said:
I've entered a regatta and the SIs call for me to give a safety briefing. I will have young and fairly inexperienced crew who are phone savvy but not so used to VHF. Racing will be mostly inshore.
In case of medical emergency would you advise a 999 call or tell them to call the Coastguard?
I've heard some recent calls when CG goes through a lengthy checklist before dispatching help. I'm not sure my youngsters have the patience.
Click to expand...

I randomly chuck a switched off HH VHF on a random channel at my kids and they can both quickly turn it on and turn it to 16. And they know how to TX because I have them use it any chance I get. The younger one doesn't use phones so I suspect he'd be more comfortable with the VHF. The older one I suspect might be more comfortable with the phone. (Although a VHF might be less daunting than the 999 call which she's obvs never done?)

In the event of an emergency they can use whatever they feel comfortable with, the last thing I want to do is add complexity.

Probably irrelevant to your sailing instructions but I sail in busy areas and I've instilled in mine the value of hoisting oilies up to the cross trees, waving tea towels and the life jacket whistle/fog horn (after a life time of mocking it, I can really see how an 8yo in busy water could use a whistle to very useful effect.) When they were much younger I regarded these as the first line of defence.


Having re-read your OP 'young and inexperienced' probably doesn't mean 'young children' in which case I'd give them some practice with the VHF calling to and from the boat from a handheld and let them decide in the moment what they fancy. I'm in a minority of one here, but I think getting bogged down in precise voice protocol etiquette is counter productive. Once they've establish comms with the CG the CG can coax the information out of them. The last thing you want is them delaying or avoiding the call because they "don't know what to say".
 
Last edited:
ylop said:
I suspect part of the reason for some questions is to calm the situation down.
Click to expand...

I've been told that and I'm sure it's true but in practice it seems to have the exact opposite effect. If morale on the calling vessel is important it would be much better to say "We've launched help to you.... Now, what is your favorite colour.". In practice it always feels like the questions are holding up the launch.
 
DanTribe said:
Good call about regatta VHF. The radio will already be on that channel and help close at hand. I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible.
I guess I should include
"in case the old geezer keels over".
Click to expand...
Do people not duel channel when participating in regattas?

I have been in some very remote locations and from time to time, just like Mr Ben, a medic turns up. Last time was Glencoe when a woman dislocated her shoulder.
 
Poecheng said:
In terms of the boat's position, it is worth them having What Three Words (an app) which identifies a defined position very well (better than lat and long for these purposes, because of ease) and as an app they will be used to how it works. They would just tell the CG the boat's position is "XYZ'
Click to expand...
what3words is a terrible idea. Far too much potential for confusion
 
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