Calling for help

Mark-1 said:
I've been told that and I'm sure it's true but in practice it seems to have the exact opposite effect. If morale on the calling vessel is important it would be much better to say "We've launched help to you.... Now, what is your favorite colour.". In practice it always feels like the questions are holding up the launch.
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I agree.
I also consider the CG's comms about where a boat is located to be completely unhelpful by transmitting lat and long. We aren't trying to bomb it, we need to know whether we are in a location where we can possibly assist and for that, we need to be told its approximate position in plain mariner's English. Precise positions can come later if and when needed.
 
DanTribe said:
I'm not sure my youngsters have the patience.
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I genuinely think this is a concern with younger kids. We (I?) get suckered into thinking that when it really matters they will be able to hold it together. I'm not at all sure the children of today can. They've never experienced boredom in their lives.
 
finestgreen said:
what3words is a terrible idea. Far too much potential for confusion
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It's whole raison d'etre, at which it succeeds admirably (see its worldwide success), is precisely to define a location in a readily accessible and non-confusing, communicable manner. Having three words (each of which cannot be confused with a different word) is easy to communicate. It is lat and long in plain words for humans not expert navigators sat at a chart table.
 
Sandy said:
A total no brainer - VHF Call to the CG. Other boats will hear it and may be able to assist. If in the red mist of panic they don't use the usual wording that really, really does not matter.
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I used to give safety briefings and take novice sailors to sea for a living. Everyone had a go at reading out the vhf instruction card I had without pressing the transmit button. Before we went sailing.

It is very good for crew morale. And mine......
 
Poecheng said:
It's whole raison d'etre, at which it succeeds admirably (see its worldwide success), is precisely to define a location in a readily accessible and non-confusing, communicable manner. Having three words (each of which cannot be confused with a different word) is easy to communicate. It is lat and long in plain words for humans not expert navigators sat at a chart table.
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In principle I agree with you completely, but the inclusion of plurals really messes it up in my opinion - really hard to get across.
 
Poecheng said:
I agree.
I also consider the CG's comms about where a boat is located to be completely unhelpful by transmitting lat and long. We aren't trying to bomb it, we need to know whether we are in a location where we can possibly assist and for that, we need to be told its approximate position in plain mariner's English. Precise positions can come later if and when needed.
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Yeah. This troubles me. My kids will typically know where they are in terms of 'near Browndown' or just past West Pole or near Mengham Rythe. However, we don't have a conventional dedicated GPS permanantly showing Lat/Long and I don't think they'd be able to find one. (Combination of laziness and stingyness, too lazy to make sure an old mobile phone is always showing Lat/Long, too tight to buy a decent way to show it.)
 
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Poecheng said:
It's whole raison d'etre, at which it succeeds admirably (see its worldwide success), is precisely to define a location in a readily accessible and non-confusing, communicable manner. Having three words (each of which cannot be confused with a different word) is easy to communicate. It is lat and long in plain words for humans not expert navigators sat at a chart table.
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"Each of which cannot be confused with a different word" is not true
 
S04 said:
Bottom of Thorney?
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I'm not saying. It used to be an open secret, now it feels like it's just 'open'!

EDIT: I've removed that sentence. I feel that the less we talk about it the better!
 
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To answer some of the comments. These young people [13 to 21] are dinghy sailors and have done a few evening races with me, but are not experienced in cruisers in stressful circumstances. Therefore I would like to keep the process as simple and intuitive as possible. They are able to get the boat home without me but may worry about using the wrong radio procedure.
I recently heard a request for assistance on Ch 16 which seemed to go on for ages. Every question on the CG tick list needed a new call and the casualty was getting more fraught. I think they just wanted a tow. I had to turn the radio off from frustration.

Wouldn't What 3 Words require the boat to remain in position?
 
Two pages in and not one mention re-location of the old fav...'strike a red flare/smoke'. That one action alone, in conjunction with the aformentioned comms will cut thru all this doubt and confusion in a trice.
 
KevinV said:
In principle I agree with you completely, but the inclusion of plurals really messes it up in my opinion - really hard to get across.
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The idea that words cannot be mis-identified is plain nonsense. During recent VJ anniversary celebrations I heard a reference by a BBC commentator, confirmed by the subtitler, to "King and Clean"!
 
DanTribe said:
Wouldn't What 3 Words require the boat to remain in position?
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No, and it is just the same as setting out the position in lat/long only easier and more understandable to people.
W3W constantly updates your position and you can send your position to others.
I take the point others have made about potential for confusion but the scope for confusion with speaking out three ordinary words (which could be readily spelt out if required, or better the position easily sent by email, text, whatsapp etc) compared to asking a person their lat/long doesnt compare in my view; most wouldn't know where to start with lat/long (wouldn't really know what it was) and wouldn't know where to find the information even if they did have a clue what it was.
Some slight proof of that pudding over the last few days:
(a) CG asking a boat for its position. Got some information but had to keep saying: "That is your latitude, I am asking for your longitude" and then had to start guessing the numbers for them to give them a clue. Nothing could move forward until the lat long had been provided !
(b) That exchange prompted me to locate where, on our (fairly well-equipped) boat the lat long is displayed: not on my plotter as I have it set up. It is on the multi display at the chart table but you would have to scroll through the menu and know to do that. It is on the SH Remote Command Mic screen all the time (great) but what stranger would think of looking there? I didnt check but probably also on the SH main set at the chart table - again why would a stranger be looking at a VHF for lat long?
I have just tried the W3W app and it gives my current location to 10m accuracy within about 2 seconds of firing it up and now (about 15 seconds later, because I was typing this) is 3m accuracy. Three ordinary English words available clearly on a device that everyone is familiar with using. If there are valid criticism of it, I am not sure anybody has come up with anything better.
 
Poecheng said:
(b) That exchange prompted me to locate where, on our (fairly well-equipped) boat the lat long is displayed: not on my plotter as I have it set up. It is on the multi display at the chart table but you would have to scroll through the menu and know to do that. It is on the SH Remote Command Mic screen all the time (great) but what stranger would think of looking there? I didnt check but probably also on the SH main set at the chart table - again why would a stranger be looking at a VHF for lat long?
I have just tried the W3W app and it gives my current location to 10m accuracy within about 2 seconds of firing it up and now (about 15 seconds later, because I was typing this) is 3m accuracy. Three ordinary English words available clearly on a device that everyone is familiar with using. If there are valid criticism of it, I am not sure anybody has come up with anything better.
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That doesn't really stack up as an advantage. Your solution requires people to install the w3w app, so why not have them instead install an app that just displays the lat long?
 
winch2 said:
Two pages in and not one mention re-location of the old fav...'strike a red flare/smoke'. That one action alone, in conjunction with the aformentioned comms will cut thru all this doubt and confusion in a trice.
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It would also cut through your GRP.
 
mjcoon said:
The idea that words cannot be mis-identified is plain nonsense. During recent VJ anniversary celebrations I heard a reference by a BBC commentator, confirmed by the subtitler, to "King and Clean"!
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But that was not a conversation where information is read back and its correctness confirmed.
Equally, it wasn't capable of the source information being sent by email, text, whatsapp etc to rule out error.
It is highly doubtful a BBC commentator actually said 'Clean'; an automated subtitle program believed that is what it heard. They make multiple errors all the time but the CG is not automatic and speaks with you. Also, why did the subtitle program capitalise Clean or is that your error ?
No human understanding the English language and the context would believe 'Clean' was said. Had the commentator been told what had been written down on their behalf, they would have corrected it immediately. Which is what would happen with the CG:" No, not clean, queen, as in king and queen"
Now, admittedly, W3W uses words without context, but that doesn't mean they are incapable of being conveyed accurately.
Anyway, enough of this from me.
 
Poecheng said:
No, and it is just the same as setting out the position in lat/long only easier and more understandable to people.
W3W constantly updates your position and you can send your position to others.
I take the point others have made about potential for confusion but the scope for confusion with speaking out three ordinary words (which could be readily spelt out if required, or better the position easily sent by email, text, whatsapp etc) compared to asking a person their lat/long doesnt compare in my view; most wouldn't know where to start with lat/long (wouldn't really know what it was) and wouldn't know where to find the information even if they did have a clue what it was.
Some slight proof of that pudding over the last few days:
(a) CG asking a boat for its position. Got some information but had to keep saying: "That is your latitude, I am asking for your longitude" and then had to start guessing the numbers for them to give them a clue. Nothing could move forward until the lat long had been provided !
(b) That exchange prompted me to locate where, on our (fairly well-equipped) boat the lat long is displayed: not on my plotter as I have it set up. It is on the multi display at the chart table but you would have to scroll through the menu and know to do that. It is on the SH Remote Command Mic screen all the time (great) but what stranger would think of looking there? I didnt check but probably also on the SH main set at the chart table - again why would a stranger be looking at a VHF for lat long?
I have just tried the W3W app and it gives my current location to 10m accuracy within about 2 seconds of firing it up and now (about 15 seconds later, because I was typing this) is 3m accuracy. Three ordinary English words available clearly on a device that everyone is familiar with using. If there are valid criticism of it, I am not sure anybody has come up with anything better.
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Just got to get the rest of the world to agree to use it. That may be a tad harder. :)
 
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