calling ferro boatbuilders

[daveyjones]

I would like to hear from anyone who has built a ferro boat to a design by Colin Brookes. I am planning to build his Norsk 40 (Colin Archer type), and would appreciate any advice or tips from anyone who has been down that road.
Also, can anyone recommend good books on a) wooden spar building, and b) wooden block building.

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[jeanne]

I have no info about your chosen design, but we did build a 33 ft ferro boat.
One of the few sensible things we did was to ask the guy who sold us the plans for the names of some people who had finished the same model, and got them sailing.
At least we knew what it looked like, and could ask if it sailed alright, and what changes they would make, and why, if they did it again.
The only other advice from our build that I would give is this, don't incorporate too many of your own ideas. The project will take forever anyway [four years to get it afloat and sailing, years more to finish it, but, hey, boats are never finished] even if you just copy a proven design.
You could try a site called 'the world of ferro boats', wwwferroboats.com

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[daveyjones]

Thanks for your reply. I am especially interested in the time your project took. Were you working on it full-time? If not, did you keep a record of how many person-days it took to build the hull? I am ok with the time scale on the fitting out, having done that work before, but I have never built a ferro hull and I am keen to find out just how long it takes. I am planning to build the hull (40 ft double ender) full time with perhaps one part-time assistant.
I have seen the website you recommended but would be grateful for any other links if they occur to you. Do you still own the boat you built, and if so how did she sail, and would you recommend ferro boats, based on your experience?


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[jeanne]

Ours was a part-time project, in addition to our normal jobs, but we worked quite intensively. I had the theory that we would run out of enthusiasm unless there was constant visible progress.
Two of us each did about twenty hours a week, with one just one 10 day holiday [going sailing] in the 4 years before launching. All other 'holidays' were full time on the boat. But we were in the project with our mate Jim and his wife. which meant we had four of us when we built the hulls. The plan was to build one hull, stop work on it immediately, and build the second hull, by the side of the first, then each of us fit out our own.
The first hull started a little late in the summer to plaster it before the autumn frosts came: we waited for next spring, so it took ten months. It could have been done in less time, but as we were learning all the time, it may not have been such a fair hull, and we may not have given thought to details like water tanks and pipe runs, which would have cost time later.
The second hull was started in May, and plastered in September, which is as quick as a part time project could go, again with four of us working. And this time we had everything ready, the scaffold, the tools, and a clear idea of how to proceed.
We had already built the frames for both boats the winter before we started the first hull, and the site was in our back garden, which must have saved hours and hours of travelling.
So the build time for us was four years to the launch, but during that time we built two hulls, with help from and help to Jim and Edna. Theirs completed a ten year circumnavigation, and Jim still sails it, and we managed a two year cruise to Brasil and back, and we still sail ours, after launching in 1985, so I guess the project paid off.
I don't want to damp down anyones enthusiasm, but I have to say that I wouldn't do it again. I wouldn't build a boat at all, because there are plenty of boats already there, and if I did build, I would build in either steel or epoxy/strip planking, because there are enough bad ferro boats about to ensure that their resale value is very poor, and they are very hard to insure.
If you have the money to build a boat, it is enough to buy one. Put it in a suitcase, go to Grenada/Trinidad/ Florida, post hurricane season, and you will save yourself years of work


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[daveyjones]

Thanks for taking the time to write such a full reply – I have been researching this for a few years now and have come across a lot of people with opinions on ferro building, but very few who speak from experience as you do.
At the risk of trying your patience one more time, I would be grateful if you could tell me roughly how much your hulls cost in materials. I can estimate the cost of fitting out , rigging , sails and engine, having done such work before, but I am trying to work out the cost of materials for the hull and also the cost of a plastering team.

I am impressed by the speed with which you built your hulls. I am thinking of two years to build a 40ft Colin Archer type hull, with a further three for the fitting out. Does this sound reasonable to you? I have also considered buying a yacht abroad, but I foresee problems compling with the EU Recreational Craft Directive. There is a loophole in that boats built before 1950 are exempt, and as I am a fan of old wooden boats that may be an option. Any comments or information on buying abroad will be welcome. I don’t really want to spend 5 years building, it’s just that I have a particuar idea about the sort of boat I want, and don’t see any way to it other than by building.
One last thing – did you have any problems building in you back yard? When I asked my local council they said it would breach planning rules and I could be forced to remove it.


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[jeanne]

As my husband said in his last - the boats were launched in 1985, so the cost for the hull is well out of date. However, the hull alone cost approx £1800 and probably all costs to the cured stage (scafolding etc) brought it up to £2000. Remarkably cheap 'cos all the saving is in terms of labour. The total cost up to launch day, with the forecabin unfinished and being used as our garden shed, but with new engines, rigs and sails (made by us ladies at sailmaking classes)was £12,000 (no fancy gizmos at that point, just all the basics). I have to say that I don't think you could have done it cheaper as we had good contacts and some very good buys. Our partner in crime worked at BAC and had a chit for the scrap compound where we could buy cast offs e.g closed cell foam for the foam sandwich coachroof/cockpit, for no money at all. Scale that up to todays prices and add a bit for our luck, plus the fact that you will need bigger everything and it will add up to a significant chunk of dosh. There are ferro boats out there for very good prices, and if they built by a reputable firm, or an good amateur who, like us had a surveyor all through building, and you could be sailing sooner. We think we have an exceptionally good hull and the surveyor uses the two boats as his standard for a good build and was there at all significant times i.e. plastering day and during the cure. For example, there is a 50odd foot schooner in our river for 50000euros; needs a bit of loving, but that is the sort of buy to save a lot of time and expense. Another friend recently bought a Hartley for a very low price.

As for the planning issue; we built the two boats in adjoining back gardens in a residential area. They were very visible as the gardens were on top of a hill overlooking the houses at the bottom. We had one visit from a councillor after one complaint and were told that as they were temporary structures, there was no planning problem. We took care never to use power tools before 9am or after about 8.30pm and warned all of our neighbours whenever there was going to be more than usual noise i.e. plastering day and the day the boats were craned out.

We became objects of interest rather than a nuisance and even had presents on launching day from people we didn't know!

But like my husband, I wouldn't do it again! It was very hard after a days work to motivate yourself to work every night/weekend and I also think he underestimated the hours we worked. Add the weekends and at least a couple of hours a night and all holidays and it was probably more. Part time help is no good when at wire tying stage, it is a 2 person job all the time. Plus, you will need insurance if you are employing someone, even a friend. We had builders insurance after Jim broke his ankle falling from our scaffolding...stable doors come to mind!!

Hope this helps
Jeanne

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[BrendanS]

Probably well worth your while doing a search across all forums. There have been many threads on the subject, and I seem to remember a journalist from the ipc magazines talking about his own boat a few years back

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[daveyjones]

Thanks for the information. I can adjust my estimations of costs based on what you have told me. At the moment I am trying to decide between building or buying a boat, so thanks for your honest advice!

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[daveyjones]

I tried that some time ago, and got a lot of criticism from anoraks who felt I was infringing some unwritten rule of internet etiquette by making multiple postings. However I might try some of the other forums (or is it fora?) in a little while.

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[BrendanS]

Uhmm, yes multiple postings is considered rather rude. What I said though was to SEARCH across multiple forums. Using the search button at the top of the page

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