cloud7
Member
Any advice on how to check if any finance due on boat, if purchasing through a broker.
Buying via brokerage outstanding finance!
- Thread starter cloud7
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andy_wilson
New member
Ask them...
Then ensure that the bill of sale will include a warranty that the vessel is free of all charges and liens, and the vendor warrants the buyer against this.
Check there are no mortgages secured against the vessel on the Register of Ships (Part 1 only).
Then ask the local chandlers, engineers, boatyards and the marina if everything is up to date, no £££ outstanding.
Try contacting the main marine mortgage / lenders and they will just quote data protection act to you... prob'ly.
Then ensure that the bill of sale will include a warranty that the vessel is free of all charges and liens, and the vendor warrants the buyer against this.
Check there are no mortgages secured against the vessel on the Register of Ships (Part 1 only).
Then ask the local chandlers, engineers, boatyards and the marina if everything is up to date, no £££ outstanding.
Try contacting the main marine mortgage / lenders and they will just quote data protection act to you... prob'ly.
jhr
Well-known member
If the broker is half way reputable, his bill of sale will contain a warranty that the boat is sold to you, free from encumbrances and without any lien on it. This gives you, at least, some basis for a legal comeback against him, if it turns out to be untrue.
Otherwise, I'd recommend
(a) seeing if you can establish a paper trail of invoices and bills of sale back to the original owner. This is helpful in any event, for VAT and other purposes but if, for instance, there is no bill of sale from when the current owner purchased the boat, it may be because a bank or finance house are holding it as security for a loan
(b) If the boat is Part One registered, write to the Registrar of Shipping, to see if there is anything recorded against the boat.
(c) Write to the main Players in the marine finance field, to see if there is a loan outstanding on the boat. There are only a few players (Lombard, Barclays etc.) and half a dozen letters should cover them.
None of these things are foolproof but, I repeat, if the Broker is reputable, and a member of the BMF and/or YDBSA, then he should be prepared to offer you protection against a dishonest seller.
Otherwise, I'd recommend
(a) seeing if you can establish a paper trail of invoices and bills of sale back to the original owner. This is helpful in any event, for VAT and other purposes but if, for instance, there is no bill of sale from when the current owner purchased the boat, it may be because a bank or finance house are holding it as security for a loan
(b) If the boat is Part One registered, write to the Registrar of Shipping, to see if there is anything recorded against the boat.
(c) Write to the main Players in the marine finance field, to see if there is a loan outstanding on the boat. There are only a few players (Lombard, Barclays etc.) and half a dozen letters should cover them.
None of these things are foolproof but, I repeat, if the Broker is reputable, and a member of the BMF and/or YDBSA, then he should be prepared to offer you protection against a dishonest seller.
jhr
Well-known member
Oops; beaten to it. Blast!
I think a bank will probably give you a simple yes/no answer to the question "Have you any loan outstanding on boat XYZ?", though they won't tell you how much, or to whom.
My current boat had a loan o/s on it when I bought via a broker. In that case, it was simply a question of paying the money to the Broker, who then used the bulk of it to pay the loan off, deducting their commission and then passing on the balance remaining to the previous owner. The bank released the bill of sale to the brokers who passed it to me, together with a new bill of sale from them including warranties etc. Straightforward enough, but you'd want to make sure you trusted the broker. In my case, it was one of the big operators, with a reputation to defend, so safe enough.
I think a bank will probably give you a simple yes/no answer to the question "Have you any loan outstanding on boat XYZ?", though they won't tell you how much, or to whom.
My current boat had a loan o/s on it when I bought via a broker. In that case, it was simply a question of paying the money to the Broker, who then used the bulk of it to pay the loan off, deducting their commission and then passing on the balance remaining to the previous owner. The bank released the bill of sale to the brokers who passed it to me, together with a new bill of sale from them including warranties etc. Straightforward enough, but you'd want to make sure you trusted the broker. In my case, it was one of the big operators, with a reputation to defend, so safe enough.
jfm
Well-known member
The free-from-lien warranty won't come from the broker. He wouldn't want that risk. A warranty from seller is also of limited use, you will have to pursue them for the money and if they're dishonest that will be much hassle. I mean, dont fall for the illusion that you've gotta warranty so that's covered it. Agree all the rest of the points made though
The bigger the boat the safer you are, as mortgages tend to be part 1 registered for bigger loans and bigger boats.
The bigger the boat the safer you are, as mortgages tend to be part 1 registered for bigger loans and bigger boats.
jhr
Well-known member
Sorry; you're quite right. I was thinking of a situation where a broker was selling a boat from stock, but otherwise it's the owner who gives the warranty and caveat emptor applies.
However, and in spite of (no doubt) some cynicism from others, I don't think a reputable broker would want to be a party to an iffy transaction, and would do their best to help if something went wrong.
But I am probably too trusting for this wicked world!
However, and in spite of (no doubt) some cynicism from others, I don't think a reputable broker would want to be a party to an iffy transaction, and would do their best to help if something went wrong.
But I am probably too trusting for this wicked world!
tripleace
New member
YOU MUST HAVE THE FULL PAPER TRAIL FROM NEW.
EVERY INVOICE ALL THE WAY DOWN. IF NOT WALK AWAY.
I speak from experience. There is a SAMLL boat dealer on the Thames near Shepperton that will sell your boat and providing the boat is still kept at his small marina he will claim it is still for sale and not pay the seller.
EVERY INVOICE ALL THE WAY DOWN. IF NOT WALK AWAY.
I speak from experience. There is a SAMLL boat dealer on the Thames near Shepperton that will sell your boat and providing the boat is still kept at his small marina he will claim it is still for sale and not pay the seller.
cloud7
Member
getting the message to stick to main dealers, at least you have some come back any views?
Its_Only_Money
New member
...and be very clear in your own mind whether you are transacting with a dealer (where the vessel is his from stock) or through a broker (where he is engaged as the sellers agent), your rights and his responsibilities are very different depending on his status.
ari
Well-known member
Basically there is no way of ensuring that there is no outstanding finance. Even on a Full Part One registered boat, how difficult is it for someone to just remove the registration number and change the name on the back of the boat?
Frankly it astounds me that a central database hasn't been made compulsary for financed boats.
All it needs is an organisation that records HIN number, engnie numbers, boat name and owner details. If the law was changed so that finance companies could only claim a lien on a boat if it were on this central database then all finance companies would use it and it would be easy to check if a boat had finance. In order to forge a boat off the list the HIN numbers would need changing and the engine number and the boat name and the owners details as any of these would flag the boat as being on the list when cross referenced.
The database could be self funding by a charge for listing a boat on it bourne by the owner. All finance companies would insist on this so it wouldn't affect them in terms of extra charges against their competitors as they'd all be using it (or have no comeback on the boat if owner defaults).
Just seems absolute madness to me that under the current system you can spend a million pounds on a used boat with no way of confirming freedom fro outstanding finance (which in current law follows the boat so new owner liable for it if not settled even if unaware of it).
I really think the law needs changing in respect of this.
Frankly it astounds me that a central database hasn't been made compulsary for financed boats.
All it needs is an organisation that records HIN number, engnie numbers, boat name and owner details. If the law was changed so that finance companies could only claim a lien on a boat if it were on this central database then all finance companies would use it and it would be easy to check if a boat had finance. In order to forge a boat off the list the HIN numbers would need changing and the engine number and the boat name and the owners details as any of these would flag the boat as being on the list when cross referenced.
The database could be self funding by a charge for listing a boat on it bourne by the owner. All finance companies would insist on this so it wouldn't affect them in terms of extra charges against their competitors as they'd all be using it (or have no comeback on the boat if owner defaults).
Just seems absolute madness to me that under the current system you can spend a million pounds on a used boat with no way of confirming freedom fro outstanding finance (which in current law follows the boat so new owner liable for it if not settled even if unaware of it).
I really think the law needs changing in respect of this.
jfm
Well-known member
I agree ari. This is what governments are supposed to do by the way, not prat about with the stuff they prat about with
cloud7
Member
Spot on i am spending £117k which grossed up before tax is alot of hard work , have found a boat , and new to game can t understand why broker other cantdo finance check for a fee !
