Buying old boat from Northern Ireland and mooring in Southern Ireland

[Simon007]

Hi all,

New to the forum and boating but wondering if people can help me out. I live in Dublin, Southern Ireland and am looking at buying a 1990 bayliner small boat from Northern Ireland and bringing it down to a mooring near Dublin which is obviously Southern Ireland. Does anyone know if there is vat to be paid due to Brexit and/or the Northern Ireland issues.

I have been told there should not be any vat as there is a special deal between the north and south but I can’t find any info out. The boat is not expensive as it is old enough at this stage.

Thanks and any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Irish Rover]

Fáilte romhat chuig an bhfóram. Free movement between North and south so no issues.

Edit. Not sure what happened there

 

[Simon007]

Thanks Irish rover, that’s just what I wanted to hear.

Can you think of any other issues I might have with buying up the north and bringing down here? Any registration issues if even. I’m new to buying so trying to get all the info I can.

 

[dunedin]

The Brexit mess up regarding Northern Ireland means nobody really knows what the position is regarding Northern Ireland and VAT etc post Brexit - least of all the British Westminster politicians, who have been consistently confused about this.
However, the consensus seems to be that boats in Northern Ireland on Brexit day uniquely retained both EU and UK Vat status. Hence AFAIK you should in theory not have to pay VAT again to move to Ireland (let’s not use the “import” word).
If you wanted a definitive view would need to consult Irish customs.
But as theory says not an issue, in practice unlikely to be anybody would notice anyway.

 

[Irish Rover]

Thanks Irish rover, that’s just what I wanted to hear.

Can you think of any other issues I might have with buying up the north and bringing down here? Any registration issues if even. I’m new to buying so trying to get all the info I can.

No. As far as ROI is concerned NI is still part of EU so no border.

 

[Irish Rover]

The Brexit mess up regarding Northern Ireland means nobody really knows what the position is regarding Northern Ireland and VAT etc post Brexit - least of all the British Westminster politicians, who have been consistently confused about this.
However, the consensus seems to be that boats in Northern Ireland on Brexit day uniquely retained both EU and UK Vat status. Hence AFAIK you should in theory not have to pay VAT again to move to Ireland (let’s not use the “import” word).
If you wanted a definitive view would need to consult Irish customs.
But as theory says not an issue, in practice unlikely to be anybody would notice anyway.

Of course they know - at least those with half a brain who are not in denial know. It's a simple matter. No confusion whatsoever.

 

[dunedin]

Of course they know - at least those with half a brain who are not in denial know. It's a simple matter. No confusion whatsoever.

You think so? I suspect you are a long way from Westminster, but British politicians have made a lot of public assertions about how things would work across GB - NI - Ireland which were clearly incorrect.
And, for example keeping to a boating perspective, note the exceptions even today to the rules regarding boat movements from HMRC - Sailing a pleasure craft that is departing from the UK
As far as this seems to describe (and this is the latest updated version) it would appear that a yacht going say GB to France would need to pay VAT, but a boat going GB to NI to Ireland to France would perhaps not. Still very confusing.
And that is before you try to sail across from GB to Ireland with a pet on board, for example.

But the OP just going NI / Ireland looks to be fine.

 

[[194497]]

So if I were to buy a secondhand boat in Ireland, move it to NI then in due course shift it again to Wales, would there be an issue with VAT?

 

[Irish Rover]

The answer to the OP's question is clear and simple. Movements such as those mentioned by other posters raise the issue of the difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion. I guess that's mainly down to your conscience, how big a pair you have and how good your submission to the customs man will be.

 

[Sunjammer]

I bought a boat in N Ireland a year ago and sailed her to the Republic where she is now permanently based. Wanting to be certain there were no potential VAT liabilities (which, knowing my luck, would come to light when I come to sell her) I decided to apply for ship registration. There's no small boat register here. This process does involve the Irish Revenue and I needed to be able to demonstrate that the boat had been in NI on the Brexit date. Thankfully the PO had plenty of paperwork which he kindly gave me including receipts for winter storage, engine overhauls etc which demonstrated where the boat had been. The registration was accepted and along with changing MMSI etc she is now officially an Irish boat.

 

[Irish Rover]

I bought a boat in N Ireland a year ago and sailed her to the Republic where she is now permanently based. Wanting to be certain there were no potential VAT liabilities (which, knowing my luck, would come to light when I come to sell her) I decided to apply for ship registration. There's no small boat register here. This process does involve the Irish Revenue and I needed to be able to demonstrate that the boat had been in NI on the Brexit date. Thankfully the PO had plenty of paperwork which he kindly gave me including receipts for winter storage, engine overhauls etc which demonstrated where the boat had been. The registration was accepted and along with changing MMSI etc she is now officially an Irish boat.

Congratulations on your purchase. The registration process is a bit unwieldy but well worth it - I did it remotely from Türkiye via email and telephone 13 years ago. The boat wasn't EU VAT paid and I had no intention of bringing it to Ireland. My registration certificate was endorsed VAT not paid or words to that effect.

 

[gordmac]

So if I were to buy a secondhand boat in Ireland, move it to NI then in due course shift it again to Wales, would there be an issue with VAT?

Don't think so, VAT would be payable I suspect. Maybe if you were a NI resident?
If you were a NI resident I think you could buy EU boats without paying VAT and sell them to Britain without the purchaser having to pay VAT. Not sure if the 20% is sufficient margin to make it a business.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

Not sure about boats but I do know that one can buy a car or motorcycle in N.I. and have it registered in the Republic of Ireland, (note, the entity called "Southern Ireland" only existed, within the text of the Government of Ireland Act, for a brief period in 1921), without attracting VAT or Customs Duty, but it must have been in N.I. on 1st January 2021.
Picking up my first motorbike in 48 years, in Lisburn on Saturday!
I daresay the O.P. could just sail his boat onto his Dublin mooring, remove the Red Ensign and any name of homeport on his transom and go sailing without anyone paying a blind bit of attention.

 

[bpbpbp]

The Brexit mess up regarding Northern Ireland means nobody really knows what the position is regarding Northern Ireland and VAT etc post Brexit - least of all the British Westminster politicians, who have been consistently confused about this.
However, the consensus seems to be that boats in Northern Ireland on Brexit day uniquely retained both EU and UK Vat status. Hence AFAIK you should in theory not have to pay VAT again to move to Ireland (let’s not use the “import” word).
If you wanted a definitive view would need to consult Irish customs.
But as theory says not an issue, in practice unlikely to be anybody would notice anyway.

Does that mean a boat in NI on Brexit day could reside anywhere in the EU without additional taxation?

 

[afoster2001]

I bought a boat in N Ireland a year ago and sailed her to the Republic where she is now permanently based. Wanting to be certain there were no potential VAT liabilities (which, knowing my luck, would come to light when I come to sell her) I decided to apply for ship registration. There's no small boat register here. This process does involve the Irish Revenue and I needed to be able to demonstrate that the boat had been in NI on the Brexit date. Thankfully the PO had plenty of paperwork which he kindly gave me including receipts for winter storage, engine overhauls etc which demonstrated where the boat had been. The registration was accepted and along with changing MMSI etc she is now officially an Irish boat.

Hi Sunjammer and all, I'm new to the forum, thanks for the interesting thread - just thinking of doing the same thing, purchasing a boat that was in NI in Jan 2020 and bringing to Ireland, where I am resident. Would appreciate any specifics to help walk me through the registration process, MMSI etc.

 

[Irish Rover]

Hi Sunjammer and all, I'm new to the forum, thanks for the interesting thread - just thinking of doing the same thing, purchasing a boat that was in NI in Jan 2020 and bringing to Ireland, where I am resident. Would appreciate any specifics to help walk me through the registration process, MMSI etc.

Fáilte romhat. It's 15 years since i registered a boat in Ireland so hopefully @Sunjammer will fill you in on his more recent experience. Unless it has changed, it's not a straightforward procedure and I didn't need to apply for an mmsi ( ). You could start by reading this
https://assets.gov.ie/static/documents/guidance-notes-on-the-registration-of-irish-ships.pdf

 

[Sunjammer]

Hi afoster2001. Happy to try and help but hope you don't want the info quickly! Two reasons - 1) I'm lucky if I can remember what I did last week so will have to look back through files and 2) I'm staying on the boat for a couple of days and haven't the files!!

 

[afoster2001]

Hi afoster2001. Happy to try and help but hope you don't want the info quickly! Two reasons - 1) I'm lucky if I can remember what I did last week so will have to look back through files and 2) I'm staying on the boat for a couple of days and haven't the files!!

Thank you very much Irish Rover and Sunjammer for the replies, no rush at all, and any info most gratefully received, thanks (and enjoy the time on the boat!)

 

[pandos]

There should not be any issues if the boat has been owned in NI for a reasonable time.

Recently, in connection with importing a camper, I saw reference to what customs regards as a reasonable time as being 3 months registered in NI..they will take proof of insurance and road tax etc as proof of that in terms of vehicles...(Obviously you still have vrt with cars but vat and import duty are not applied to imports from ni)

If you intend to register it in Ireland you need a lot of paperwork right back to the manufacturer. You do not need to register a pleasure vessel to use in Irish waters..

 

[Irish Rover]

If you intend to register it in Ireland you need a lot of paperwork right back to the manufacturer.

This was not my experience but it was 15 years ago. Maybe @Sunjammer can comment on his more recent experience. Certainly, don't be put off by this without talking to the MMO. I found all the people on the official side easy to deal with and anxious to help.