Buying old boat from Northern Ireland and mooring in Southern Ireland

[ShaneO]

I had a go at registering in Ireland a couple of years ago, and it ultimately failed due to minor problems with historical paperwork, like a bill of sale with a different address to where they’d lived on the bill of sale where they bought it, and somebody having neglected to write the date on some document. Other oddities included an ad in a newspaper for a name change, and expensively getting a specialist surveyor out to declare how many tuns of cargo the yacht can ship. It was all expensive and time-consuming, and disappointing when it fell through; I was sailing at the time I got that notification and immediately got online on my phone and started the process with a Polish registry agency. The NEXT DAY I had a temporary registration and the full thing followed quickly.

As has been said, the Irish crowd are great if you can get them on the phone. For such a tech savvy country though the online stuff is very often rubbish.

 

[Irish Rover]

As has been said, the Irish crowd are great if you can get them on the phone. For such a tech savvy country though the online stuff is very often rubbish

I agree the Irish system is not ideal for leisure craft owners. It's an antiquated scheme designed and intended for ship registration. Up to a few years ago there was an alternative "nod and a wink" unofficial registration scheme operated by the Irish Sailing Association which most leisure craft owners taking their boats overseas availed of. That was stopped, and there have been numerous promises since of an Irish SSR but it hasn't materialised.
Because you have to deal with 3 different government offices - MMO, MSO and Revenue - the system is a bit unwieldy but the requirements are exactly the same as UK Part 1 or full Jersey registration, both of which I've done. The Tonnage Survey is a standard requirement of all 3, and shouldn't be overly expensive in Ireland as there are quite a few qualified surveyors around.
I'm in Türkiye and 90% of my dealings with the Irish authorities were via email, and the other 10% on the phone, when I did it in 2010. It's not that difficult if your paperwork is in order. If it's not you'll have the same issues with any registry of title, which Poland is not.

 

[Sunjammer]

Ok, afoster2001, I've been back through emails to piece together my experience. It wasn't difficult - just protracted! Maybe 6 months overall. Don't remember it being too expensive either. Started with Revenue Customer Brexit Queries team to confirm that no duty or VAT would be levied once documents proving status had been presented. I had several documents from PO including engine service bill, winter storage receipt for the Brexit date. Once Customs had approved the status, Mercantile Marine Office (MMO) were the dept for registration they have a set of guidance notes to help the process. Also Marine Survey Office (MSO) to arrange survey - there were 2, an initial thorough inspection confirming paperwork matched the vessel and to determine net gross tonnage. Then a shorter, follow-up after I made the necessary changes. These included displaying the boat's name on both bows and stern (think they had to be 100mm high min and in black) plus the port of registration on the stern. Also had to permanently fit a Carving and Marking plate showing registration number, boat name and net tonnage (this cost about €100.)
VHF Radio - PO needs to advise UK Ofcom of no longer needing licence. The MSO are the department for VHF licences - straightforward application form. What is not so straightforward is the change of MMSI - once this is issued, your VHF (plus any handheld or AIS) will need to be taken to an electronics specialist with the necessary equipment to make the change. That process of VHF change took about 3 months.

Hope this helps, if there's anything else let me know

 

[pandos]

Ok, afoster2001, I've been back through emails to piece together my experience. It wasn't difficult - just protracted! Maybe 6 months overall. Don't remember it being too expensive either. Started with Revenue Customer Brexit Queries team to confirm that no duty or VAT would be levied once documents proving status had been presented. I had several documents from PO including engine service bill, winter storage receipt for the Brexit date. Once Customs had approved the status, Mercantile Marine Office (MMO) were the dept for registration they have a set of guidance notes to help the process. Also Marine Survey Office (MSO) to arrange survey - there were 2, an initial thorough inspection confirming paperwork matched the vessel and to determine net gross tonnage. Then a shorter, follow-up after I made the necessary changes. These included displaying the boat's name on both bows and stern (think they had to be 100mm high min and in black) plus the port of registration on the stern. Also had to permanently fit a Carving and Marking plate showing registration number, boat name and net tonnage (this cost about €100.)
VHF Radio - PO needs to advise UK Ofcom of no longer needing licence. The MSO are the department for VHF licences - straightforward application form. What is not so straightforward is the change of MMSI - once this is issued, your VHF (plus any handheld or AIS) will need to be taken to an electronics specialist with the necessary equipment to make the change. That process of VHF change took about 3 months.

Hope this helps, if there's anything else let me know

How old was this boat, did you have paperwork from when it was manufactured right up to your purchase?

 

[Sunjammer]

My boat was 2007 and, yes, I had all the paperwork from manufacture right through to bill of sale which obviously made the whole process with regard to customs relatively straightforward.

 

[Irish Rover]

How old was this boat, did you have paperwork from when it was manufactured right up to your purchase?

I don't think this should be taken literally in the case of a leisure craft, which is not actually required to be registered. My advice would be, don't be put off by this. See what you've got and talk to the MMO.

 

[pandos]

I don't think this should be taken literally in the case of a leisure craft, which is not actually required to be registered. My advice would be, don't be put off by this. See what you've got and talk to the MMO.

The mmo has refused two attempts by friends of mine... It's not the mmo that deals with it in cork it's someone in revenue.. they make no differentiation between commercial and leisure as it's all about title registration..I have never heard of anyone registering a vessel without having the paperwork back to manufacturer..thus my warning to the OP..

Btw the sailing association is issuing kind of registration certs that others have relied on in foreign places...

 

[Irish Rover]

The mmo has refused two attempts by friends of mine... It's not the mmo that deals with it in cork it's someone in revenue.. they make no differentiation between commercial and leisure as it's all about title registration..I have never heard of anyone registering a vessel without having the paperwork back to manufacturer..thus my warning to the OP..

Btw the sailing association is issuing kind of registration certs that others have relied on in foreign places...

First off I mentioned the Irish Sailing Association in my #22 above and as I said they stopped issuing registrations many years ago - this from their own website
"Irish Sailing Small Craft Register
For a number of years the Irish Sailing provided an Irish Sailing Small Craft Registry Certificate to boat owners who needed some form of documentation when visiting foreign ports. This was not a Government endorsed document and during a consultation on other matters with the Department of Transport in 2014 the Department requested the Irish Sailing to cease operating their registry."
My experience registering dates back to 2010 and I know for a fact they didn't ask for a builders certificate. I was the 3rd owner and I supplied the bill of sale from the 1st owner to the 2nd from whom I bought it, along with my own proof of purchase of course. The boat was never on a register of title prior to my registering it. That was my experience, and if I was doing it again, I'd argue the toss if necessary, and maybe write to a TD or two.

 

[lustyd]

"Southern Ireland" only existed, within the text of the Government of Ireland Act

Yougal and Kinsale are in southern Ireland, Letterkenny in the north. It may not be a country but southern Ireland is definitely a place

 

[Irish Rover]

Yougal and Kinsale are in southern Ireland, Letterkenny in the north. It may not be a country but southern Ireland is definitely a place

And if we're being pedantic, as some like to be, Yougal is not a place I've ever heard of. Those of us who are happy in our Irishness don't give a bollox what anyone calls our country. It's Paddyland, and we're all descended from the celibate Saint.

 

[pandos]

First off I mentioned the Irish Sailing Association in my #22 above and as I said they stopped issuing registrations many years ago - this from their own website
"Irish Sailing Small Craft Register
For a number of years the Irish Sailing provided an Irish Sailing Small Craft Registry Certificate to boat owners who needed some form of documentation when visiting foreign ports. This was not a Government endorsed document and during a consultation on other matters with the Department of Transport in 2014 the Department requested the Irish Sailing to cease operating their registry."
My experience registering dates back to 2010 and I know for a fact they didn't ask for a builders certificate. I was the 3rd owner and I supplied the bill of sale from the 1st owner to the 2nd from whom I bought it, along with my own proof of purchase of course. The boat was never on a register of title prior to my registering it. That was my experience, and if I was doing it again, I'd argue the toss if necessary, and maybe write to a TD or two.

Yes their official unofficial system was stopped at the request of the langers in the Dail... But they will still issue a cert with the details that they have on a members boat, Irish Sailing > Shop, which others have used abroad. I found out about it on here. My friend has one, which he bought last year, whilst I have one of the old unofficial ones in the green hard cover.

 

[Irish Rover]

Yes their official unofficial system was stopped at the request of the langers in the Dail... But they will still issue a cert with the details that they have on a members boat, Irish Sailing > Shop, which others have used abroad. I found out about it on here. My friend has one, which he bought last year, whilst I have one of the old unofficial ones in the green hard cover.

I wasn't aware owners were still relying on these abroad. Some customs and port police officers can be sticklers. I have UK Part 1 registration, who now issue certs digitally and do not issue hard copies. On 2 different occasions in Greece a customs official and a port police officer wouldn't accept my cert and I had to produce the email from UKSR to convince them it was legit. That said, there appear to be thousands of boats with Delaware registration going around Europe, and they're not proper international registration either.
Langers in the Dail

 

[lustyd]

Yougal is not a place I've ever heard of

Well if you’d heard it, you might not have realised that’s how it’s spelled we had great fun in Ireland with names, as you say the Irish don’t care much and will always laugh with you when you get it wrong.

 

[Irish Rover]

Well if you’d heard it, you might not have realised that’s how it’s spelled we had great fun in Ireland with names, as you say the Irish don’t care much and will always laugh with you when you get it wrong.