Buying in Croatia

[yoda]

Does anybody have recent experience of buying in Croatia with the intent of bringing the boat to the UK. I am after practical advice on the legal processes. I know that VAT will be due on arrival in the UK but need to understand how long a boat can remain in Croatia after buying and before exporting etc etc. Please PM me if you can help. I don't want a Brexit discussion - we are where we are.
Many Thanks
Yoda

 

[Tranona]

Does anybody have recent experience of buying in Croatia with the intent of bringing the boat to the UK. I am after practical advice on the legal processes. I know that VAT will be due on arrival in the UK but need to understand how long a boat can remain in Croatia after buying and before exporting etc etc. Please PM me if you can help. I don't want a Brexit discussion - we are where we are.
Many Thanks
Yoda

Can't help on the process of buying, but Baggywrinkle may be along soon to share his experience.

As a resident in a third country (which I assume you are) you can keep the boat in the EU for up to 18 months without paying EU VAT as a temporary import. At the end of 18 months you can leave (to Montenegro?) and return to start another 18 months.

Take care about the costs of buying there as the VAT free boats are almost all ex charter, and although there is a glut at the moment, this is not reflected in the asking prices which are high compared with similar boats in the UK once you have taken into account transport, bringing them up to standard and paying VAT. It can however be attractive if you intend to keep the boat in the Med or even go outside, as many Americans and Antipodeans have done in the past. Even if you intend sailing back it is costly and time consuming unless you treat it as a holiday and do it over a full season or 2 half seasons. My experience having done (from Greece) anyway.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

As a resident in a third country (which I assume you are) you can keep the boat in the EU for up to 18 months without paying EU VAT as a temporary import. At the end of 18 months you can leave (to Montenegro?) and return to start another 18 months.

OP seems to have his current Nic 345 on the Tamar, but your info otherwise is useful . He could spend a decent amount of time there preparing the boat and cruising, before bringing a purchased boat back, but what of the boat's VAT status when stopping over in ports along the way back to UK.

 

[Tranona]

Yes, indeed. It can make sense if the objective is to spend some time cruising outside the UK. No problem stopping inside or outside the EU as the TI rules apply. What may prove unclear is whether individual ports will require evidence of status, but guess that proof of purchase in Croatia and UK registration plus evidence of normal UK residence of owner and skipper will be enough. Only drawback is that UK resident is only allowed 90 days in EU so my suggestion of splitting the passage is sound, as might be spending some time in non EU countries like turkey, Montenegro or the N African states. Croatia is currently not in Schengen so there are no limits there either.

A lot of thought and research is required before risking large sums of money on buying such a boat.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Does anybody have recent experience of buying in Croatia with the intent of bringing the boat to the UK. I am after practical advice on the legal processes. I know that VAT will be due on arrival in the UK but need to understand how long a boat can remain in Croatia after buying and before exporting etc etc. Please PM me if you can help. I don't want a Brexit discussion - we are where we are.
Many Thanks
Yoda

I bought a VAT unpaid boat in Croatia and you must export it immediately you take possession. I spent about half a day at the customs dock in Split completing the formalities with the police and the customs agents.

But .... it is not as bad as it sounds.

Export means completing the export paperwork and sailing out of the territorial waters (12 Nm) ... then you can re-flag the boat, change the name, turn round and head back in under UK registration and re-enter the EU under temporary admission - I did that and it just takes a few hours. Then you have 18 months in the EU with no VAT to pay - plenty of time to sail it round to the UK.

On entry to the U.K. you will be charged VAT and any import duties due.

I would buy from a reputable charter company and use a surveyor of your choosing. The charter company can help with the export, or use a reputable broker. I bought direct form the charter company and it went very smoothly.

 

[roblpm]

I bought a VAT unpaid boat in Croatia and you must export it immediately you take possession. I spent about half a day at the customs dock in Split completing the formalities with the police and the customs agents.

But .... it is not as bad as it sounds.

Export means completing the export paperwork and sailing out of the territorial waters (12 Nm) ... then you can re-flag the boat, change the name, turn round and head back in under UK registration and re-enter the EU under temporary admission - I did that and it just takes a few hours. Then you have 18 months in the EU with no VAT to pay - plenty of time to sail it round to the UK.

On entry to the U.K. you will be charged VAT and any import duties due.

I would buy from a reputable charter company and use a surveyor of your choosing. The charter company can help with the export, or use a reputable broker. I bought direct form the charter company and it went very smoothly.

Can you say which charter company and if they were more or less OK?! ?

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Can you say which charter company and if they were more or less OK?! ?

I'd rather not say which company, it was a privately owned Croatian company with a reasonably large fleet. It was all a bit of a drama where I got what I wanted in the end but it didn't go very smoothly. Still not sure if the charter company was trying their luck - but they came through in the end.

The process.

The charter companies decide at the beginning of the season which boats they are going to retire from their fleets, so they go on the market around March/April with the stipulation that you take possession at the end of the charter season, which is around Sept. Try and contact the charter companies direct around Feb as going through a broker costs the buyer money.

I was initially looking for a Bavaria 34, about 7 years old .... but when I went for a viewing it was moored next to a Bav 36 which was also up for sale, 10 years old and slightly cheaper but a huge increase in interior volume. The price was the bottom end of the 11-12m AWB market - the Bav 36 cost me €39,200 with complete charter inventory. (without VAT) - there was nothing cheaper in Croatia at this size at the time. I also knew Croatia was due to join the EU so I was never going to have to pay VAT as the boat was over 8 years old.

My advice would be to ask if you can charter the boat for a week and if you decide to buy, they knock the cost of the charter holiday off the price. Seems fair and the charter company went for it. I chartered for a week in April and they knocked the €800 off the price.

During the charter I went over everything in the boat, took the floors up and photographed every nook and cranny - I also made a list of things that needed fixed - which to their credit, they did fix. I even hauled her out to check keel, rudder and saildrive. This was a scruffy boat but everything worked and was in a serviceable condition.

... I paid the deposit and waited.

In September we got the info that we could do a final inspection before taking possession of the boat. We travelled down and within 5 mins of stepping on board it was obvious that the boat had been severely damaged. It had been grounded hard and the damage to the grid, bulkheads and furniture were obvious once you lifted the floors. I told the base rep who tried to claim it was like that in April until I showed him the photos. He then contacted head office. They had also swapped the victron battery charger for an old, rusty lump and claimed the victron unit had expired during the charter season so they had swapped it out. If I do this again, I will insist that I am consulted about any changes made to the boat between paying the deposit and delivery.

I had a meeting with the company owner at their head office where I was offered 3 choices, a repair, my deposit back, or another boat from their fleet at the same price. I took the other boat, which I had surveyed, and it was in better condition than the one I originally intended to buy - so everything turned out OK in the end.

The people I dealt with at the head office were reasonable people, the man in charge of the sales who also created the contracts was very helpful and trustworthy, the people at the base not so much.

I would do it again, and probably will in the next 2 years.

 

[yoda]

I'd rather not say which company, it was a privately owned Croatian company with a reasonably large fleet. It was all a bit of a drama where I got what I wanted in the end but it didn't go very smoothly. Still not sure if the charter company was trying their luck - but they came through in the end.

The process.

The charter companies decide at the beginning of the season which boats they are going to retire from their fleets, so they go on the market around March/April with the stipulation that you take possession at the end of the charter season, which is around Sept. Try and contact the charter companies direct around Feb as going through a broker costs the buyer money.

I was initially looking for a Bavaria 34, about 7 years old .... but when I went for a viewing it was moored next to a Bav 36 which was also up for sale, 10 years old and slightly cheaper but a huge increase in interior volume. The price was the bottom end of the 11-12m AWB market - the Bav 36 cost me €39,200 with complete charter inventory. (without VAT) - there was nothing cheaper in Croatia at this size at the time. I also knew Croatia was due to join the EU so I was never going to have to pay VAT as the boat was over 8 years old.

My advice would be to ask if you can charter the boat for a week and if you decide to buy, they knock the cost of the charter holiday off the price. Seems fair and the charter company went for it. I chartered for a week in April and they knocked the €800 off the price.

During the charter I went over everything in the boat, took the floors up and photographed every nook and cranny - I also made a list of things that needed fixed - which to their credit, they did fix. I even hauled her out to check keel, rudder and saildrive. This was a scruffy boat but everything worked and was in a serviceable condition.

... I paid the deposit and waited.

In September we got the info that we could do a final inspection before taking possession of the boat. We travelled down and within 5 mins of stepping on board it was obvious that the boat had been severely damaged. It had been grounded hard and the damage to the grid, bulkheads and furniture were obvious once you lifted the floors. I told the base rep who tried to claim it was like that in April until I showed him the photos. He then contacted head office. They had also swapped the victron battery charger for an old, rusty lump and claimed the victron unit had expired during the charter season so they had swapped it out. If I do this again, I will insist that I am consulted about any changes made to the boat between paying the deposit and delivery.

I had a meeting with the company owner at their head office where I was offered 3 choices, a repair, my deposit back, or another boat from their fleet at the same price. I took the other boat, which I had surveyed, and it was in better condition than the one I originally intended to buy - so everything turned out OK in the end.

The people I dealt with at the head office were reasonable people, the man in charge of the sales who also created the contracts was very helpful and trustworthy, the people at the base not so much.

I would do it again, and probably will in the next 2 years.

Baggywrinkle

All very helpful. I think I would be very reluctant to choose and put a deposit down on a boat for it to then be used for a season. That however is just a constraint on the boats that may be available to me. I am very aware of the probable condition that boats will be found in and the work that may be required. Very useful to understand that you have to go out and back 12 miles to start the 18 months of temporary use in EU waters. I would almost certainly look to spend a season cruising back to the UK and going via North Africa may well be an option I would take.

Thanks to all the others who have commented. All being well the sale of my current boat should go through soon and I will start the search proper.

Yoda

 

[Tranona]

Much has changed since Baggywrinkle bought his boat (and when I bought mine in Greece). The planned retirement routine has fallen down because the charter demand has dropped and boats are being kept in service longer. Replacement boats are mostly larger because that is what the market demands and many operators are finding they have surplus under 40' boats which they need to sell. Many of these are far older than the typical 6-8 year old boats from the past. Not unusual to find 10+year old boats still notionally available for charter or sale.

While the greater choice may be good, my observation is that prices for such boats are higher than I would expect, perhaps because operators are not under so much pressure to buy new boats. Anyway, you have to go and look for yourself and make up your own mind. I do, however agree that if possible deal direct with the operator/owner rather than through an intermediary.

 

[yoda]

Much has changed since Baggywrinkle bought his boat (and when I bought mine in Greece). The planned retirement routine has fallen down because the charter demand has dropped and boats are being kept in service longer. Replacement boats are mostly larger because that is what the market demands and many operators are finding they have surplus under 40' boats which they need to sell. Many of these are far older than the typical 6-8 year old boats from the past. Not unusual to find 10+year old boats still notionally available for charter or sale.

While the greater choice may be good, my observation is that prices for such boats are higher than I would expect, perhaps because operators are not under so much pressure to buy new boats. Anyway, you have to go and look for yourself and make up your own mind. I do, however agree that if possible deal direct with the operator/owner rather than through an intermediary.

All wise words and grateful for your time to reply. It is indeed a big sum to spend and I have time on my side. I think the idea of chartering for a week in the early summer next year will allow me to sound out the place , people and potential boat much better. In the mean time it’s surprising how may boat owning friends want crew….
Yoda

 

[Ningaloo]

Having just sailed my new boat from Hamble to Balearics (so far) I suggest looking hard at how you might get the boat back to the UK if you are limited to 90 days Schengen.
I had expected to do 3,500Nm to get to Italy/Tunisia but I have only managed about 2,500Nm and at times it has felt like a long delivery trip rather than more relaxed cruising. Not so much of a problem if you have EU passport, but otherwise I would plan on doing this over two seasons.

 

[Tranona]

When I sailed my boat back from Corfu I planned it in one hit with 2 crew. Started 1 May with the aim of getting back by end of the month before the northerlies really got going down the Iberian coast. Had a few problems with failing autopilots and took over 2 weeks mostly motoring to get to Majorca. Clearly it was going to be tight and I did not fancy doing the last leg without an autopilot. so went to Sant Carles and trucked it home from there.

If I had a choice I would leave the Adriatic in September, take 6 weeks to get perhaps to the Algarve, lay up there for the winter and start again the next May. You could extend the Schengen by checking out and going offshore for a week or so, although 90 days would be quite reasonable for a leisurely cruise back to UK.

 

[Maritimus]

Does anybody have recent experience of buying in Croatia with the intent of bringing the boat to the UK. I am after practical advice on the legal processes. I know that VAT will be due on arrival in the UK but need to understand how long a boat can remain in Croatia after buying and before exporting etc etc. Please PM me if you can help. I don't want a Brexit discussion - we are where we are.
Many Thanks
Yoda

Hi yoda!

I don’t know if is late but i will try help you. We are doing this on regular base. Once you become owner seller should provide deletion certificate to you. With notarized BOS and certificate in hand you can register boat in UK, arrange insurance etc. but you can not sail with boat. You have no problem if boat stay short time required for registration in marina. Once you have new documents you must clear boat from Croatia. Broker should arrange paperwork on your cost. Now you have two options. Once paperwork on custom is stamped you must sail 12 NM out of Croatian territorial waters. If you are in Split-Zadar area, we are talking about 40-5 NM sailing. When you are out you change name, registration and if you want you can return in Croatia immediately or proceed to other destination. We usually do all process in 1 day. Once you are back in Croatia you can stay 1,5 years. After 1,5 years you just clear out from Croatia again and return back same day. This will grant you another 1.5 years. This can go endless.

If you need more details fell free contact me on my mob phone or mail address.

Mob. +385 95 906 1060
maritimus.consultant@st.t-com.hr
www.maritimus-consultant.hr

Rgds Sinisa
Maritimus Consultant

 

[Nina Lucia]

Hi yoda!

I don’t know if is late but i will try help you. We are doing this on regular base. Once you become owner seller should provide deletion certificate to you. With notarized BOS and certificate in hand you can register boat in UK, arrange insurance etc. but you can not sail with boat. You have no problem if boat stay short time required for registration in marina. Once you have new documents you must clear boat from Croatia. Broker should arrange paperwork on your cost. Now you have two options. Once paperwork on custom is stamped you must sail 12 NM out of Croatian territorial waters. If you are in Split-Zadar area, we are talking about 40-5 NM sailing. When you are out you change name, registration and if you want you can return in Croatia immediately or proceed to other destination. We usually do all process in 1 day. Once you are back in Croatia you can stay 1,5 years. After 1,5 years you just clear out from Croatia again and return back same day. This will grant you another 1.5 years. This can go endless.

If you need more details fell free contact me on my mob phone or mail address.

Mob. +385 95 906 1060
maritimus.consultant@st.t-com.hr
www.maritimus-consultant.hr

Rgds Sinisa
Maritimus Consultant

Hi Sinisa,
Thanks for clarifying and confirming it all.
This summer I was in Pula and inquired about sailing our sailing boat to Croatia from UK and keeping it Istria for a few years. In Pula Lucka Kapetanija they said same: "there is no problem keeping the British flagged sailing boat in Croatia, the only thing is you have to take her out in International waters for a day every 18 months, then come back and sign in again. I forgot to ask how much that usually costs, if it costs at all?
Best Regards,
Ivan

 

[Maritimus]

Hi Sinisa,
Thanks for clarifying and confirming it all.
This summer I was in Pula and inquired about sailing our sailing boat to Croatia from UK and keeping it Istria for a few years. In Pula Lucka Kapetanija they said same: "there is no problem keeping the British flagged sailing boat in Croatia, the only thing is you have to take her out in International waters for a day every 18 months, then come back and sign in again. I forgot to ask how much that usually costs, if it costs at all?
Best Regards,
Ivan

Hi Ivan!

Process i described is for boats just purchased in Croatia. If boat entering Croatia with British flag you just have to do regular arrival/departure clearance. This cost noting and you can do yourself.

Rgds Sinisa

 

[Nina Lucia]

Hi Ivan!

Process i described is for boats just purchased in Croatia. If boat entering Croatia with British flag you just have to do regular arrival/departure clearance. This cost noting and you can do yourself.

Rgds Sinisa

Happy New Year Sinisa,

Thanks, just to confirm, when we do arrival clearance, I guess in Dubrovnik, we can keep our British Flagged boat in Croatia for a year and a half, then leave for a day and come back for another year and a half.
Best Regards,
Ivan

 

[Maritimus]

Happy New Year Sinisa,

Thanks, just to confirm, when we do arrival clearance, I guess in Dubrovnik, we can keep our British Flagged boat in Croatia for a year and a half, then leave for a day and come back for another year and a half.
Best Regards,
Ivan

Yes you are right. Just you must go 12 NM out of Croatian teritorial waters.

Happy New year to you as well!

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Just to be clear, it doesn't cost "nothing" to enter Croatia and sail in Croatian waters .... there are fees to be paid. Tourist Tax, and a fee for "safety of navigation".

Good summary can be found here:

Fee calculator (incl. tourist tax) for Croatia holidays by boat

Good news is that it is an awful lot cheaper than it used to be.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Happy New Year Sinisa,

Thanks, just to confirm, when we do arrival clearance, I guess in Dubrovnik, we can keep our British Flagged boat in Croatia for a year and a half, then leave for a day and come back for another year and a half.
Best Regards,
Ivan

To confirm, this is exactly what I did with my British flagged boat. If you are paid up with "Safety of navigation" fees and tourist tax, there is no cost to do this, it is just like crossing the border with a car but with the added paperwork for the 18 month temporary admission for the boat. I found the port authorities to always be friendly (Split, Mali Losinj and Pula) and never had a problem with out/in on the same day. .... and to be honest, out of sight of the port authority for a few hours works just as well as 12 Nm, just don`t take the pi$$ ... so no anchoring and going ashore for dinner while you are supposed to be checking out/in - use your common sense.

 

[Pete7]

Out of interest, what sort of percentage is the import and VAT duty into the UK for a yacht?

Pete