Buying British?

[WestWittering]

Lots in the news lately - I'm mainly following the arguments about staying in the EU, what would happen to British exports, manufacturing, overseas markets etc. So, without diversifying into referendums, immigration, the euro etc. I wondered if people here make the effort to buy British equipment for their boats. Is it possible to buy EVERYTHING either made in the UK or made from overseas components assembled in the UK. Apart from the factor of price, does our quality & innovention stack up against and would you pay a 'reasonable' premium to purchase British goods!

If you have a foreign boat, that is fine - we cant all afford Rustlers or Southerlies, but if you live in the UK would you actively choose to buy British equipment for the boat if it were feasible?

Dianne

 

[Poignard]

I buy chain from a British manufacturer, also paint, antifouling and sails. This is not due to patriotism but because these products are readily available at the right price. Offhand I can't think of much else that is 'made in Britain' that I might need.

 

[johnalison]

I used to buy British for preference but I was probably wrong. If we had't supported hopeless cases like British Leyland, it is possible that British manufacturing would have modernised earlier.

 

[wotayottie]

These days its almost impossible to know if what you are buying is British - almost never says "made in England" on it. Is a Triumph motorcycle built in Thailand a British product? Or Raymarine electronics made in China? Or HP sauce made in Holland? Clarks shoes made in Vietnam.

You get conned because so much of our industry has been bought out and only the British trademark is kept with production moved overseas. Ironically you sometimes get conned the other way with goods made here but given a German name because everyone knows German products are better.

Could we make goods every bit as good as anyone else - of course we could. Will we do so - not whilst buying British doesnt matter to most of the population and is a definite no no to a part of it. Why bother making in the expensive UK if there is no business gain to doing so?

 

[wotayottie]

. If we had't supported hopeless cases like British Leyland, it is possible that British manufacturing would have modernised earlier.

BL wasnt "hopeless" Thats nonsense - the cars always were better than anything from France or Italy and not much behind the Germans. What killed them was lack of support from the UK car buyers who unlike their French and Italians oppos didnt support home industry.

.

 

[WestWittering]

OI!! THREAD DRIFT!!!

Di :wink:

 

[lustyd]

You'd probably cause more damage to British business by refusing to buy things manufactured overseas than you would help. Most sensible British companies outsource the manufacturing to somewhere cheap while keeping the high value jobs (design, marketing, management, HR etc.) here in Britain. This has meant that British people, even the jobless, are better off than we used to be and therefore use more services (restaurants, cleaners, gardeners, coffee shops etc.). This has created more jobs than manufacturing gave us. Ask anyone working at Starbucks if they wish they could be working a mine and I doubt you'll get any takers. Same would probably go for working in a loud/hot/cold/repetitive factory environment. Manufacturing jobs are not skilled and enjoyable they are boring and repetitive with no scope for self development.

 

[prv]

BL wasnt "hopeless" Thats nonsense - the cars always were better than anything from France or Italy and not much behind the Germans. What killed them was lack of support from the UK car buyers who unlike their French and Italians oppos didnt support home industry.

So are you suggesting that a significant proportion had some kind of grudge against BL, and actively sabotaged it by buying French or Italian? Because if not, why did they do so?

It's before my time, but the only answer that makes any sense to me is that the products (by which I mean the whole package, from marketing to pricing to servicing and spares, as well as the pure technical merits of the car itself) were better.

Pete

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

Component selection by country is very difficult. We all thought Tesco burgers were English, then it turns out they were Irish, then it turned out they were Dutch!

Where buying British can make a difference is when the product has a lot of direct labour in it, like boat building. Buying from someone like Rustler directly supports employment in this country and I think that is a good thing. The taxes they pay go back into our economy and employing locals is good as well.

The other benefit to me is that by buying locally you can generally speak in English to someone in the same time zone if there is a problem.

 

[halcyon]

Ask anyone working at Starbucks if they wish they could be working a mine and I doubt you'll get any takers. Same would probably go for working in a loud/hot/cold/repetitive factory environment. Manufacturing jobs are not skilled and enjoyable they are boring and repetitive with no scope for self development.

Ask them if they would be interested in earning £500 - £700 a week in none skilled manufacturing job or serving coffee ? because that's what motor trade jobs would be paying in to-days terms.

The problem to-day is that the Starbucks employee is taking money from the Asda employee for his coffee, who earns his money from the Starbucks employee buying his food Asda. While the manufacturing job converts a low priced raw material, into a high value export.

Brian

 

[halcyon]

It's before my time, but the only answer that makes any sense to me is that the products (by which I mean the whole package, from marketing to pricing to servicing and spares, as well as the pure technical merits of the car itself) were better.

Pete

Back in the 1960's the vast amount of cars were British, come the !970's and we have recession, other countries support there manufacturing, we don't, result firms fail, we import. The much maligned Marina was 4th in UK car sales one year, technically British designs were advanced, BL had a 5 seater that did 133 mpg.

We suffered then as to-day from banks not backing manufactures, I worked for Rubery Owen in the 60's, they had the most advanced structural steel plant in Europe. But could not use it as the banks would not finance large building jobs, and Rubery Owen were second largest Private company in the UK.

Add in the unions, strikes, closed shop, change in how management worked, British and foreign marketing, etc, etc, etc.

We try and make history so simple to-day.

Brian

 

[WestWittering]

Oh well, as you lot have insisted on drifting the thread - I used to have an Austin Allegro - and I loved it!!

Di

 

[johnphilip]

It's British, it must be rubbish

This has been the media and hence the public perception for too many years. Think of the adspeak "wonderful Italian design" " German engineering reliability" "French flair"
We have believed this to varying degrees and hence we now have no home economy in terms of wealth creation.
The only people making lots of dosh are solicitors, accountants, bankers , bankers and other consultants who have little outside competition.
Yes I am slightly ashamed to have bought a foreign built yot but as stated earlier dream yachts such as the Mystery 35 are expensive compared to production line products.
If someone here is bold enough now to start a productive business they have to persuade the banks they don't need the money before they will lend it, a whole army of lawyers is poised to pounce on any minor mistake with compensation claims and dont lets start on planners...

 

[maby]

I try to avoid buying anything imported if I can help it, but it is unfortunately the case that the range of British made goods on offer is very small these days. Before we bought our current French AWB, I emailed Hunter to ask if they had anything on the roadmap to meet our requirements, but the nearest they could offer was at least eighteen months off and their provisional design did not look too interesting.

We are now looking for an upgrade - looked at Southerly at the Boat Show and it is undoubtedly an impressive boat - but twice the price of a similarly sized and equipped Bavaria or Jeanneau. If we were intending to sail round the world in it, I might consider selling another kidney, but for coastal bumming round Europe, the French or German AWB seems likely to win out!

 

[wotayottie]

So are you suggesting that a significant proportion had some kind of grudge against BL, and actively sabotaged it by buying French or Italian? Because if not, why did they do so?

It's before my time, but the only answer that makes any sense to me is that the products (by which I mean the whole package, from marketing to pricing to servicing and spares, as well as the pure technical merits of the car itself) were better.

Pete

Grudge is the wrong word. But there's no doubt in my mind that a lot of British people were receptive and indeed still are receptive to the idea that foreign goods are exciting, different , better. How else can you account for people buying Fiat cars or Dacia or Citroen? And having bought them they feel obliged to knock the domestic and praise the import. Brits living abroad have been known to do that about where they live particularly in Ibiza.

I used to do a great deal of travelling selling British goods round the continent, Japan, the US etc. The only country with the same completely open market as the UK was the US. In Germany people would often explain politely to me that ( and I quote here) "they learned after WW2 that they had to stick together to survive and they saw no reason to buy foreign if there was a German maker". Same thing but even stronger in Japan. In some cases including one I was involved in with Ford Germany , sample products were sabotaged by German workers to protect other German workers and to prevent imports.

Dont get me wrong - I'm all in favour of free trade, but its not free if there are cultural factors biasing trade in one direction and if there are legal restrictions preventing fair trade, takeovers etc. Trivial examp-le you may have read on the forum a while ago - British chap living in Germany wanted to install a UK made woodburner. Couldnt do so because no British woodburners had been approved by the German association of chimney sweeps and so they werent legally allowed. So much for the common market. I came across many such examples in my working days.

Does it matter? Yes it does. Each year we are 6 billion pounds in deficit in our trade account and we have to borrow that money year by year from foreigners. That has the same sort of effect on UK demand and employment as an extra 6 billion tax. And with weak domestic demand, British companies are selling out / closing down so even if demand comes back there is no one to make the goods. In the last year or two the pound has devalued and you would expect an increase in our exports. Hasnt happened - the exporters no longer exist in many sectors.

Right now we are comfortable but dont be deceived - we are fighting for economic survival and we do need to support each other.

 

[rosewood]

These days its almost impossible to know if what you are buying is British - almost never says "made in England" on it. Is a Triumph motorcycle built in Thailand a British product? Or Raymarine electronics made in China? Or HP sauce made in Holland? Clarks shoes made in Vietnam.

You get conned because so much of our industry has been bought out and only the British trademark is kept with production moved overseas. Ironically you sometimes get conned the other way with goods made here but given a German name because everyone knows German products are better.

Could we make goods every bit as good as anyone else - of course we could. Will we do so - not whilst buying British doesnt matter to most of the population and is a definite no no to a part of it. Why bother making in the expensive UK if there is no business gain to doing so?

I think the triumph is made in Hinckley

 

[maxi77]

BL wasnt "hopeless" Thats nonsense - the cars always were better than anything from France or Italy and not much behind the Germans. What killed them was lack of support from the UK car buyers who unlike their French and Italians oppos didnt support home industry.

.

In my opinion it was their dealer network that really let them down. All the major problems I had with my Leyland cars were dealer induced like losing the end of a speedo cable in the gearbox.

 

[lustyd]

Ask them if they would be interested in earning £500 - £700 a week in none skilled manufacturing job or serving coffee ? because that's what motor trade jobs would be paying in to-days terms.

The problem to-day is that the Starbucks employee is taking money from the Asda employee for his coffee, who earns his money from the Starbucks employee buying his food Asda. While the manufacturing job converts a low priced raw material, into a high value export.

Brian

Nonsense, the skill required in manufacturing mass produced items has gone, and as such making a mass produced car would give the same wage as making mass produced coffee because the skillset is identical (push this button, move this item, pull this lever). Any percieved extra value is in your imagination.

Where wages do differ, is in the high end manufacturing. Most of this is still done in the UK anyway as shown on Evan Davis Made in Britain - the McLaren for instance, or Eurofighter helmet (£500k each!). Many people who used to work in our factories now work managing chinese factories - you'd be amazed how much admin there is in outsourcing!

 

[lustyd]

I try to avoid buying anything imported if I can help it, but it is unfortunately the case that the range of British made goods on offer is very small these days.

Have you tried instead looking for British designed goods? Or British companies who outsource the manufacturing? Just because it's not made here doesn't mean the fat end of the profit doesn't get back here and filter down the economy. As I said, coffee shops account for a huge number of jobs and the people supporting them are the designers of goods, the technicians, the consultants. Even the travel industry benefits as more flights are being taken by people inspecting factories, signing deals and controlling quality.

I think it's good that this is in the public eye, not because manufacturing needs to return, but because people need to be educated as to what our economy is actually doing these days and to widen their view of a job being a man with a hammer!

 

[halcyon]

Does it matter? Yes it does. Each year we are 6 billion pounds in deficit in our trade account and we have to borrow that money year by year from foreigners. That has the same sort of effect on UK demand and employment as an extra 6 billion tax. And with weak domestic demand, British companies are selling out / closing down so even if demand comes back there is no one to make the goods. In the last year or two the pound has devalued and you would expect an increase in our exports. Hasnt happened - the exporters no longer exist in many sectors.

Right now we are comfortable but dont be deceived - we are fighting for economic survival and we do need to support each other.

If you do a google for BMW financial statement 2011, it makes interesting reading, from memory net profit 4.9 bn, tax paid 2.5 bn euro, capital expenditure 3.7 bn euro, product development 3.3 bn euro, it is this is the sort of money we need as a country.

We buy based on what is the cheapest with a good right-up, or the most expensive so as to show their status.

Brian