Buying boat with no sailing experience. How feasible is my plan?

[cherod]

to be " legall " or " safe " on your boat you do not need any RYA anything .

 

[Doge]

@Doge ... an excellent thread and very entertaining. You have rung a lot of bells here; Panama Canal; local waters, training; Shengen; Magellan Strait; bit-coin financies; fishing on board; and now catamarans.

A breath of fresh air. Well done doge.

Incidentally I agree with most of your opinions and admire your persistant determination to stand your ground with your take on various elements. I hope it lasts and best of luck. I believe you have the breadth of outlook to succeed.

Thanks

 

[Doge]

We've had a Cutlass 27 for 30 years now, so I can give you some pointers as to what to look for, if you're interested. As others have said, don't get too hung-up on keel design. The Cutlass long keel is pretty much characteristic of the type, which means you get a lovely, sea-kindly "slicing" motion through a chop. They don't slam at all. Your tillerpilot will have a pretty easy life if the sails are trimmed correctly (I've been able to hold the tiller in a Force 6 with one finger). They don't make much leeway, as you might expect, and you will never have to worry about keel bolts. At night, you won't be disturbed by slapping noises of wavelets against the hull - particularly in the after cabin, as there isn't one!

But then, of course, you get the long-keel downsides too. Astern under power, Avocet has never gone the same way twice. You develop coping mechanisms, but marinas are not where a long-keeler excels! You have a big, underwater wetted area too. Cutlasses are faster than they look, but only because they are very narrow in the beam. Space below is poor. I've been on 25 footers with more useable space below. (Headroom better than the Contessa though). They are well laid-up, and I've hit a few rocks in my time, without anything more than gelcoat scratching to the encapsulated keel. The laminate is monumentally thick! They don't take the ground well, of course. You can dry out alongside, but they have a tendency to fall on their noses. This isn't a big deal as they can "hang" off their samson posts (Cutlasses are very strongly laid-up with good scantlings). Some had hull reinforcements for drying-out legs, but I've never bothered trying. They do have one weak point, which is right at the bottom trailing edge of the keel. The rudder, bottom bearing is a big bronze block, bolted through the fibreglass with a single large bolt. There's no ballast at the back of the keel, it's just a very deep sump, right to the bottom. Needless to say, it is an absolute pig to get to! If you dry out on the back of the rudder, it can pull the bolt head through the fibreglass, at which point, you fill up and sink in the usual way! It happened to Avocet's previous owner. He salvaged the boat and the design was modified so that the fibreglass was locally reinforced and the bronze block was tapped to take FOUR bolts. It's been fine for the last 30 years...!

Thanks for this. I have looked at the Cutlass and other similar boats. They have a real reputation for toughness. It's certainly one I'll be keeping an eye out for when I'm ready to buy. I think they look better than the Vega and they look to me to have better windows. One weakness I've read about with the Vega is the windows can be knocked out in heavy seas and so should ideally be modified. How thick is the laminate with the cutlass? I've read that the Vega is around one inch.

 

[DownWest]

One inch sounds very unlikely. (thought Doge meant the windows!)

 

[Kelpie]

The Vega does not have inch thick laminate, I doubt any boat actually does. That would weigh an incredible amount. You can see daylight through it on a sunny day.

At least one Vega has lost a window in heavy weather. The easy and ugly way of fixing that is to make new windows oversized, and bolt them in place. Or carry stormboards to do the same job.

But don't try to pick the 'best' design of boat. Just see what's on the market when you're finally able to buy, and check for any particular pitfalls of the designs on your shortlist.

 

[Doge]

The Vega does not have inch thick laminate, I doubt any boat actually does. That would weigh an incredible amount. You can see daylight through it on a sunny day.

At least one Vega has lost a window in heavy weather. The easy and ugly way of fixing that is to make new windows oversized, and bolt them in place. Or carry stormboards to do the same job.

But don't try to pick the 'best' design of boat. Just see what's on the market when you're finally able to buy, and check for any particular pitfalls of the designs on your shortlist.

That's pretty much my plan. Hopefully by the time I'm ready to buy I'll know what sort of thing I'm looking for.

How does the overall hull thickness of various 70's fiberglass boats compare? From what I understand they are all actually too thick for their indented purpose as racers compared to more modern hulls. But this is nice for using them as sturdy go anywhere cruisers.

 

[Kelpie]

That's pretty much my plan. Hopefully by the time I'm ready to buy I'll know what sort of thing I'm looking for.

How does the overall hull thickness of various 70's fiberglass boats compare? From what I understand they are all actually too thick for their indented purpose as racers compared to more modern hulls. But this is nice for using them as sturdy go anywhere cruisers.

Hulls have become a bit thinner but this has been in concert with better design, engineering, and materials. More modern boats use kevlar in high stress areas, resins are better quality (newer boats are very unlikely to suffer osmosis), thickness of layup and the orientation of the fibres are now more carefully controlled to give better strength and lower weight.
Cored construction gives increased stiffness and strength for lower weight, but you may wish to avoid that on an older boat in case there has been any water ingress in to the core, or delamination. It's not a common technique for cruiser hulls anyway.

 

[laika]

Right, yes. I'll wreck my investment strategy to buy a boat that I wont even be in a position to use much yet (or ever if i wreck my investment strategy) because ill "go small, go simple, go now"..

Prove me wrong and drop us a line from patagonia telling us how you got on. The youtube videos, tweet shots and repetition of received Interweb crypto evangelist wisdom suggest your "strategy" here is "Put money in => get rich quick". Not being the historical peak of BTC doesn't make this a trough so if you're determined to sell at the peak there'll always be another one right behind it. You're not going anywhere.

V1701 is repeating a mantra which just about anyone on this forum who has, or has seriously thought about buying a boat and sailing to distant shores would agree with. You always need just a bit more than you've got to set off and when you've got that just a bit more as a safety net and next thing you know you're old or have cancer and never did it. If you're actually serious stop watching youtube, and book yourself on a sailing course right now. A week on the solent in autumn should given you a better idea of whether to go all in with this or find another dream.

Youtube is great if you want to learn a particular skill but watching a video is utterly orthogonal to the visceral experience of being in the elements. Do some actual sailing then either do more or look for a different hobby but playing top trumps small sailing boats is a bit of a waste of time.

And how far did Polynesian canoes ever get?

I really thought this was irony, but it clearly wasn't

File:Polynesian Migration.svg - Wikimedia Commons

Go small, go simple, go 1000 years ago...

 

[Doge]

Prove me wrong and drop us a line from patagonia telling us how you got on. The youtube videos, tweet shots and repetition of received Interweb crypto evangelist wisdom suggest your "strategy" here is "Put money in => get rich quick". Not being the historical peak of BTC doesn't make this a trough so if you're determined to sell at the peak there'll always be another one right behind it. You're not going anywhere.

V1701 is repeating a mantra which just about anyone on this forum who has, or has seriously thought about buying a boat and sailing to distant shores would agree with. You always need just a bit more than you've got to set off and when you've got that just a bit more as a safety net and next thing you know you're old or have cancer and never did it. If you're actually serious stop watching youtube, and book yourself on a sailing course right now. A week on the solent in autumn should given you a better idea of whether to go all in with this or find another dream.

Youtube is great if you want to learn a particular skill but watching a video is utterly orthogonal to the visceral experience of being in the elements. Do some actual sailing then either do more or look for a different hobby but playing top trumps small sailing boats is a bit of a waste of time.

Well maybe I'll start my own youtube channel and be Britians answer to Jarle Andhoy. There does seem to be a bit of a gap in the market. Yotubers dont seem to have covered Patagonia.

As for crypto, we'll see...

 

[Doge]

Anyone investing in crypto should understand that poo scammers are everywhere and will target you with cunning tricks. Keep your guard up in the crypto space.

 

[DebsH2]

Ok so we knew nothing about Sailing last year...... had a two day taster sailing lesson in the Solent to see if we would like it and were bitten by the bug. I can honestly say I would not just buy a boat and go out not knowing anything and then..........

We booked to do our courses in Gib for March this year and then had to cancel them, Cos - Covid, in the meantime my husband decided he wanted a boat and found one he really liked in Jan 2021...... so we are now proud owners of a Colvic UFO 31.. cutting a very long story short, he did the comp crew and Day skipper in May/June so we could get her closer to home.. she now resides in the hamble and we go out regluarly on her,

I am very risk averse so this whole thread has my butt clenching. but hey its you life and you only have one... YT has a lot to answer for ?

 

[Doge]

As I say I know my self quite well. My family had a static caravan at Bridlington and I used to spend many days in the sea. The rougher the sea was, the happier I'd be. When I was older I'd swim round to inaccessible coves at Flamborough head. More recently I got into the Japanese Shinto festivals (Omatsuri)). I'm one of a very small number of non Japanese to have fully participated in Tejikara Fire festival. I don't need to waste money to know that I'm cut out out for this.

 

[Kelpie]

playing top trumps small sailing boats is a bit of a waste of time.

Well put. Choosing/finding the boat is not as big s piece of the puzzle as people think.
The skills you need, and the financial plan to back it all up, matters a lot more. A bit like retraining as a plumber and starting off by choosing your van.

 

[Kelpie]

As I say I know my self quite well. My family had a static caravan at Bridlington and I used to spend many days in the sea. The rougher the sea was, the happier I'd be. When I was older I'd swim round to inaccessible coves at Flamborough head. More recently I got into the Japanese Shinto festivals (Omatsuri)). I'm one of a very small number of non Japanese to have fully participated in Tejikara Fire festival. I don't need to waste money to know that I'm cut out out for this.

Do you get seasick?
Do you enjoy being in your own company for days at a time?
Do you like being cut off (no phone/internet) for days/weeks at a time? How do you fill that time presently, and will you be able to do that on the boat?

 

[cherod]

without me being judgmental or anything , ( only asking ) do you have much sailing / boating experience , what is it that makes you want to do this thing anyway ?
re the crypto,, ( up again today ) , why are you limiting your budget to the 10k£ ( or 8 if you take the advice of spending 2 on some courses ☹ ) , surely if the crypto bonanza does materialise you would be adding a few zeros to that figure .

 

[Doge]

Do you get seasick?
Do you enjoy being in your own company for days at a time?
Do you like being cut off (no phone/internet) for days/weeks at a time? How do you fill that time presently, and will you be able to do that on the boat?

I went on some ferry crossings on school trips. Others were seasick while I never was even slightly. I *love* roller coasters. The last time I was at Alton Towers I found that as it was closing the single rider que on the smiler consisted of about three people so ran round and round about ten times. Feeling sick was just never part of the equation. Having said that I do feel sick if i try to read in a car. But from what I understand that has more to do with the eyes not seeing what the body is feeling and the body misinterpreting it as poisoning. It's not severe sickness and I dislike reading anyway.

I'm comfortable in my own company. I often go fishing by myself and thoroughly enjoy it.

Being without internet would be a bit of a pain. But starlink is coming and I don't generally check my phone when I'm out fishing by myself anyway. For me there's just something about being surrounded by nature that satisfies the mind. Fishing makes a lot more sense to natural human feelings than getting up and going to work. Seems to have an obvious evolutionary basis. I can fish as much as I want from a boat.

 

[Doge]

without me being judgmental or anything , ( only asking ) do you have much sailing / boating experience , what is it that makes you want to do this thing anyway ?
re the crypto,, ( up again today ) , why are you limiting your budget to the 10k£ ( or 8 if you take the advice of spending 2 on some courses ☹ ) , surely if the crypto bonanza does materialise you would be adding a few zeros to that figure .

Yeah but not by next spring. Did you see what happened in may? I need to also be able to fund myself.

As for what makes me want to do it anyway. I love the sea, I love being surrounded by nature, I love excitement and adventure. I think that the first time I'm in my boat and can see only sea and sky will be one of the best moments of my life. Like that whole section of the globe is just mine. I can scream and shout, swim naked do whatever I feel like in the moment. Total freedom. It wont be a "thin space" for me in the slightest.

 

[cherod]

Yeah but not by next spring. Did you see what happened in may? I need to also be able to fund myself.

yes i know what happened in may ,, but already recovered .

 

[cherod]

Yeah but not by next spring. Did you see what happened in may? I need to also be able to fund myself.

go drive an hgv for a year while the crypto is fermenting .

 

[Kelpie]

Having said that I do feel sick if i try to read in a car...
I dislike reading anyway...

The second sentence worries me more than the first. Podcasts are a great alternative if you dislike reading.

Being without internet would be a bit of a pain. But starlink is coming and I don't generally check my phone when I'm out fishing by myself anyway. For me there's just something about being surrounded by nature that satisfies the mind. Fishing makes a lot more sense to natural human feelings than getting up and going to work. Seems to have an obvious evolutionary basis. I can fish as much as I want from a boat.

I've never understood fishing other than being a way of obtaining food. We used to trail some feathers behind us most of the time but after an entire season of catching nothing except seaweed we gave up.
I would much rather read a book ?