Buying boat from one half of recently separated couple UK

WoodyP said:
But you have to trace the money. I knew someone who comprehensively denuded his apparent wealth by maxing out credit cards and shipping cash abroad where he went into a very comfortable retirement with his new partner leaving his wife with nothing. He was a director of a multi national company, so knew what he was up to.
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As an Expat who banks offshore etc - I would suggest that nowadays - such antics are not so easy ...

Even about 15 odd years ago - I was chased by "The Office of Voluntary Disclosure" to detail my finances .... they contacted via the ex wife. She panicked and starting looking at getting an accountant involved .... luckily I managed to register with the Office .. and highlighted my position of Tax Exempt through the Portsmouth Tax Office.

Office of Voluntary Disclosure .... if ever there was a dept mis-named - that has to be it ! In essence - a Dept set up to trace previous tax payers who went off radar ... to explore disproportionate financial transfers .. and many other 'irregularities' ..... The Voluntary part ? Choose to have them apply huge penalties or register and own up !! Luckily I had agreement with Tax Office.
 
this feels like a great way to lose your money. if court decides he didn't own the boat (fully or in a substantial part), then it is her boat that has been stolen. Much as with buying a stole car, it goes back to the previous owner and you have to raise a claim against the now proven deadbeat to get your money back. Which you won't.

Either she is listed on the bill of sale and signs it, or you don't get involved. I wouldn't get involved.
 
Refueler said:
As an Expat who banks offshore etc - I would suggest that nowadays - such antics are not so easy ...

Even about 15 odd years ago - I was chased by "The Office of Voluntary Disclosure" to detail my finances .... they contacted via the ex wife. She panicked and starting looking at getting an accountant involved .... luckily I managed to register with the Office .. and highlighted my position of Tax Exempt through the Portsmouth Tax Office.

Office of Voluntary Disclosure .... if ever there was a dept mis-named - that has to be it ! In essence - a Dept set up to trace previous tax payers who went off radar ... to explore disproportionate financial transfers .. and many other 'irregularities' ..... The Voluntary part ? Choose to have them apply huge penalties or register and own up !! Luckily I had agreement with Tax Office.
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I feel your pain. This was a few years ago, maybe 1994. We had counted them as friends as a couple but remained friends with the wronged wife. He did all this while she was dealing with cervical Cancer.
 
Can't believe no-one's asked if the boat is registered Part 1 or SSR.

Part 1 protects you, SSR does not (I believe).

Also value of the boat matters. If it's only, say, £5000 and you sail it away then the ex is less likely to litigate than if it's a £50,000 boat.
 
I would suggest that you might get a good deal in the circumstances. There is a complete load of absolute cobblers written above. If you get a bill of sale from the person named as the owner on his bill of sale when he bought it, there's zero chance of any court taking it off you. If there's any issues the court will sort it out between them. If they were not a married couple then there's no issues to worry about anyway.
 
Ignoring all the technicalities, if you buy this boat, there are only two possibly outcomes.
(1) Nothing really happens after the sale.
(2) the ex-wife creates hell.

If (1), you have a boat you wanted.
If (2), you're screwed.

Applying the Law of Unintended Consequences, which option do you think is more likely?
 
nevis768 said:
I would suggest that you might get a good deal in the circumstances. There is a complete load of absolute cobblers written above. If you get a bill of sale from the person named as the owner on his bill of sale when he bought it, there's zero chance of any court taking it off you. If there's any issues the court will sort it out between them. If they were not a married couple then there's no issues to worry about anyway.
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Sorry that’s not necessarily right. If the ownership on the bill of sale when bought predates the divorce, then it’s not that person’s to sell, unless there is a supplementary document agreed by both couples and legalised in the divorce settlement transferring absolute title to that person, post divorce.
 
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Refueler said:
The RYA or whatever Bill of Sale signed by him is a good doc to have as it should cover Liens / Obligations etc as another said earlier.
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As I understand/recall it, the RYA and similar standard form bills of sale don't fully protect you against liens, debts and obligations, but by signing it (without altering the wording) the seller does 'warrant' there are none, and indemnifies the buyer against them.

Assuming I'm correct in the above, if, for example, you bought a boat standing in yard that, despite the owners declaration on the bill of sale that there were no debts, did have outstanding yard bills owing, it wouldn't stop the boatyard seizing the vessel (stopping you gaining possession), but you would be able to go to court to claim your resulting losses from the seller.
 
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LittleSister said:
As I understand/recall it, the RYA and similar standard form bills of sale don't fully protect you against liens, debts and obligations, but by signing it (without altering the wording) the seller does 'warrant' there are none, and indemnifies the buyer against them.

Assuming I'm correct in the above, if, for example, you bought a boat standing in yard that, despite the owners declaration on the bill of sale that there were no debts, did have outstanding yard bills owing, it wouldn't stop the boatyard seizing the vessel (stopping you gaining possession), but you be able to go to court to claim your resulting losses from the seller.
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Correct. ✅
 
Life is getting very complicated. Next time I go to buy a boat I have to ask the guy how he's getting on with his missus. Can he assure me their relationship is solid and there's no talk of separation. I suppose I should ask him if he's playing away, in case she finds out and decides to dump him.
 
Irish Rover said:
Life is getting very complicated. Next time I go to buy a boat I have to ask the guy how he's getting on with his missus. Can he assure me their relationship is solid and there's no talk of separation. I suppose I should ask him if he's playing away, in case she finds out and decides to dump him.
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If his other half appears and wants her 1/2 of the old Centaur or whatever it is you say ‘Fine, I’ve left it in Hamble Point Marina, what’s your address for the berthing invoice?’…?

I can’t imagine a boat sale due to relationship breakdown is rare, in my case I bought it twice rather than sell it but there you go!
 
Sticky Fingers said:
Sorry that’s not necessarily right. If the ownership on the bill of sale when bought predates the divorce, then it’s not that person’s to sell, unless there is a supplementary document agreed by both couples and legalised in the divorce settlement transferring absolute title to that person, post divorce.
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The OP hasn't said he was married, and in any case it is the persons right to sell it if he is on the bill of sale. The point is that then MAYBE a matter for the couples solicitors to sort out, between them, nothing to do with the new owner. Speaking from experience of sorting out who the owner of a stolen car is when it's been 'ringed'the courts can't sort that out never mind when a legal owner has sold something.
You can't even get your own bike back when it is stolen and somebody buys it in "good faith"
 
Sticky Fingers said:
Sorry that’s not necessarily right. If the ownership on the bill of sale when bought predates the divorce, then it’s not that person’s to sell,
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This tends to suggest that property becomes communal upon marriage and I'm near certain that's not the case.

Married people can own things individually, and it's upon divorce that a court will order their property to be divided fairly (or this is negotiated through litigation), with a view to the length of the marriage and the assets that each brought to it.

This forum is terrible for legal advice, and I think the really admins should consider locking these kinds of threads once they reach the point where people are contradicting each other without providing legal citations. You might argue that I might be guilty of this too but OP would be better off posting on Reddit legal advice UK forum something to the effect of, "what are the risks of buying a boat on which the seller's acrimonious ex may make a claim?"

If it's on the part 1 then you can look up the ownership online though, and you're absolutely safe if the owner transfers it to you on that registry.
 
KompetentKrew said:
This tends to suggest that property becomes communal upon marriage and I'm near certain that's not the case.

Married people can own things individually, and it's upon divorce that a court will order their property to be divided fairly (or this is negotiated through litigation), with a view to the length of the marriage and the assets that each brought to it.

This forum is terrible for legal advice, and I think the really admins should consider locking these kinds of threads once they reach the point where people are contradicting each other without providing legal citations. You might argue that I might be guilty of this too but OP would be better off posting on Reddit legal advice UK forum something to the effect of, "what are the risks of buying a boat on which the seller's acrimonious ex may make a claim?"

If it's on the part 1 then you can look up the ownership online though, and you're absolutely safe if the owner transfers it to you on that registry.
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Latvia clings on to an old rule ....

What you own before marriage - remains wholly yours.
What either of you buy after marriage - is joint owned 50-50.

Fact.
 
Refueler said:
Latvia clings on to an old rule ....

What you own before marriage - remains wholly yours.
What either of you buy after marriage - is joint owned 50-50.

Fact.
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OP is asking about a private sale in UK, though. It's the first sentence of the original question that started this thread.
 
nevis768 said:
I would suggest that you might get a good deal in the circumstances. There is a complete load of absolute cobblers written above. If you get a bill of sale from the person named as the owner on his bill of sale when he bought it, there's zero chance of any court taking it off you. If there's any issues the court will sort it out between them. If they were not a married couple then there's no issues to worry about anyway.
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Consider this example: owner A, showing a bill of sale BOS from when he bought the boat, sells it to B. B now owns the boat with a new BOS. However, a few months later, A "sells" the boat again, using his original BOS and spare key, to you. Based on your logic, you would not have any worries?
 
EugeneR said:
Consider this example: owner A, showing a bill of sale BOS from when he bought the boat, sells it to B. B now owns the boat with a new BOS. However, a few months later, A "sells" the boat again, using his original BOS and spare key, to you. Based on your logic, you would not have any worries?
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For me - if I was Mr B ...
a) I would always ask for all docs / keys on buying a boat - ie sellers original Bill of sale showing he bought the boat, as well as any surveys etc.
b) My Bill of Sale would cover all responsibilities of sale .. with seller liable for falsehoods.
b) I would change key / locks if possible anyway.
c) Most likely I would be moving the boat to my choice of mooring etc.

If such a scenario occurred - would that not be Mr A committing Fraud ? A criminal act ?
 
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