Buying and Owning an American Yachts

[KeelsonGraham]

Tha

OK. Sorry I jumped to conclusions, perhaps in my defence because that is what most people who come on here plan to do as they are seduced by low prices in the US and maybe watched too many youtubes!.

Buying that sort of boat puts things in a different light. The advice on British Part 1 is still the best. The cost is insignificant in terms of the overall budget and you will have the security of your title to the boat registered which may, if you need to, allow easier access to finance and down the line make it easier to sell the boat with clear title. The "survey" does not cover the fabric of the boat in the way that a pre purchase condition survey, but measures the boat under an old fashioned system which used to be used for calculating light dues. While this still applies to commercial ships it does not to pleasure yachts. The surveyor also confirms the identity of the boat and that it exists. What some people do is engage the same designated surveyor to do the condition survey at the same time as the registration one but that may not be possible. The registry will provide aa list of their surveyors which will include some in the US.

The issue about importing into the UK or EU stays the same. AFAIK no US production boats are built to UK/European standards simply because it is not economic as they are not sold here. Some used to be including Catalina, but the penal import duties that followed the spat between Trump and the EU over subsidies to Boeing killed the already limited market. However if you stick to outside the EU/UK buying a US boat makes a lot of sense.

Thanks Tranona. TBH I’m not really thinking of ending the trip back in the UK. If it happens, then we’ll most likely sell her in the Caribbean once we’re done.

We have a Euro spec Catalina 34 at the moment. Great boat.

 

[dunedin]

………. The "survey" does not cover the fabric of the boat in the way that a pre purchase condition survey, but measures the boat under an old fashioned system which used to be used for calculating light dues. While this still applies to commercial ships it does not to pleasure yachts. ……

As an aside, the survey “tonnage” still is relevant for pleasure craft Light Dues in UK & Ireland waters (and possibly in other jurisdictions), not just commercial ships.
Any pleasure craft over 20 registered tons should pay Light Dues (which depending on boat volume, could kick in above 42 foot or so) - see here Light Dues
I am aware of at least one power boat owner who got caught out by this.

 

[BobnLesley]

Not much use to the OP but we know several 'cheaper/older' boats which were bought in the USA/Caribbean, then UK registered and eventually sailed 'home' without anyone official ever enquiring as to their VAT or RCD status. Though should anyone enquire, I couldn't possibly remember the names of said boats or their owners.

 

[KeelsonGraham]

Yes, I don’t doubt it could be done. But when you come to sell her??????

 

[dunedin]

Not much use to the OP but we know several 'cheaper/older' boats which were bought in the USA/Caribbean, then UK registered and eventually sailed 'home' without anyone official ever enquiring as to their VAT or RCD status. Though should anyone enquire, I couldn't possibly remember the names of said boats or their owners.

Avoiding getting a boat UK CA Certified is probably an unlikely civil issue. Wilful tax evasion could result in a criminal prosecution. Not worth the risk methinks. (And the OP makes clear he has no plans to bring the boat to UK anyway.)

 

[Tranona]

Avoiding getting a boat UK CA Certified is probably an unlikely civil issue. Wilful tax evasion could result in a criminal prosecution. Not worth the risk methinks. (And the OP makes clear he has no plans to bring the boat to UK anyway.)

Actually both are criminal offences, although avoiding certification on its own is perhaps easier because there are less obvious mechanisms for enforcing it. However with the new reporting procedures for yachts following Brexit which include getting specific clearance from HMRC the chances of being "caught" are probably higher than when we were in the EU.

 

[wonkywinch]

Who said anything about cheap? I’m thinking of a 23 model 445. It most certainly will be cheaper in the US than in the islands - but not cheap.

Plus, I'm tired of mending my boat on the cold, windy hard in Plymouth. I’d much rather be mending another one somewhere warm and sunny.

That's a relief, I was going to suggest that anything that was in the BVI pre Irma (Sept 2017) would need close examination.

 

[Seven Spades]

OK. Sorry I jumped to conclusions, perhaps in my defence because that is what most people who come on here plan to do as they are seduced by low prices in the US and maybe watched too many youtubes!.

Buying that sort of boat puts things in a different light. The advice on British Part 1 is still the best. The cost is insignificant in terms of the overall budget and you will have the security of your title to the boat registered which may, if you need to, allow easier access to finance and down the line make it easier to sell the boat with clear title. The "survey" does not cover the fabric of the boat in the way that a pre purchase condition survey, but measures the boat under an old fashioned system which used to be used for calculating light dues. While this still applies to commercial ships it does not to pleasure yachts. The surveyor also confirms the identity of the boat and that it exists. What some people do is engage the same designated surveyor to do the condition survey at the same time as the registration one but that may not be possible. The registry will provide aa list of their surveyors which will include some in the US.

The issue about importing into the UK or EU stays the same. AFAIK no US production boats are built to UK/European standards simply because it is not economic as they are not sold here. Some used to be including Catalina, but the penal import duties that followed the spat between Trump and the EU over subsidies to Boeing killed the already limited market. However if you stick to outside the EU/UK buying a US boat makes a lot of sense.

Hylas are not American made and are not subject to tariffs and are good boat to boot.

 

[Seven Spades]

Actually both are criminal offences, although avoiding certification on its own is perhaps easier because there are less obvious mechanisms for enforcing it. However with the new reporting procedures for yachts following Brexit which include getting specific clearance from HMRC the chances of being "caught" are probably higher than when we were in the EU.

The reality is you call the National Yacht Line and they ask if you have anything to declare and if you say no you are cleared in. There really is no proper checks or enforcement. You will of course have lied and risk the boat being seized, prosecution is unlikely for a first offence.

 

[Tranona]

Hylas are not American made and are not subject to tariffs and are good boat to boot.

The OP is talking about a Catalina, not a Hylas. Many of the up market "US" boats are built in China or Taiwan and some have been imported direct into the UK or EU and the builders will get them certified. However none of them seem to be very active here at the moment.

 

[Seven Spades]

He said his existing boat is a catalina, I have no idea what he is looking for now. But I see he has since posted that he is not intending to bring the boat to the UK so the question is academic. He might as well just put the boat on the SSR and just go sailing.

 

[Tranona]

He said his existing boat is a catalina, I have no idea what he is looking for now. But I see he has since posted that he is not intending to bring the boat to the UK so the question is academic. He might as well just put the boat on the SSR and just go sailing.

You obviously have not read the thread. In posts#14&16 the OP says specifically that he is thinking of buying a Catalina probably a new or nearly new 445 based on his experience of owning a 34 here.

I too made the incorrect assumption that he was looking, like many others, at the used boats, often of types not available here, cheap in the US. These are difficult if not impossible to import into the EU/UK. However again if you read the whole thread he is planning to cruise the Caribbean and his question was about where and how to register the boat. He may be able to use the SSR if he is still resident in the UK, but Part 1 would be more sensible for the type of boat he plans to buy as it gives the extra of title registration. As with many such threads this drifted to the related issue of importation.

 

[KeelsonGraham]

Yep, after last summer’s washout, it’s the Caribbean for us. Fingers crossed, a nearly new Catalina 425 or 445. (The 425 with genset and aircon looks to be the perfect boat for 2). If not, we’ll ship over our Catalina 34 and rough it. Either way warm sailing/ boating mending is in our future.

No way on God’s Earth would I not declare the new boat to HMRC in the unlikely event of us deciding to sail back.

It’s a huge pity that politics has got in the way of trade. I’d choose a new Cat any day over a new JenBenBav but not at a 20% premium. I’d rather spend the money on flights, than give it to the government.

 

[Tranona]

Yep, after last summer’s washout, it’s the Caribbean for us. Fingers crossed, a nearly new Catalina 425 or 445. (The 425 with genset and aircon looks to be the perfect boat for 2). If not, we’ll ship over our Catalina 34 and rough it. Either way warm sailing/ boating mending is in our future.

No way on God’s Earth would I not declare the new boat to HMRC in the unlikely event of us deciding to sail back.

It’s a huge pity that politics has got in the way of trade. I’d choose a new Cat any day over a new JenBenBav but not at a 20% premium. I’d rather spend the money on flights, than give it to the government.

You would pay VAT on any boat coming into the UK. That is the point of having VAT on private imports to level the playing field. Catalinas always sold at a higher price when new compared with equivalent European built boats in the UK reflecting all sorts of extra costs particularly freight which made many US boats uncompetitive in Europe.

Anyway that does not affect your decision to buy in the US for use in the Caribbean.

 

[KeelsonGraham]

It’s not the VAT I’m on about, it’s the additional punitive 20% import duty.

 

[westernman]

It’s not the VAT I’m on about, it’s the additional punitive 20% import duty.

Import duty is 0%.

Yachts and other vessels for pleasure or sports; rowing boats and canoes - UK Integrated Online Tariff - GOV.UK

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Import duty is 0%.

Yachts and other vessels for pleasure or sports; rowing boats and canoes - UK Integrated Online Tariff - GOV.UK

In the EU it is what about the UK I think there is import duty because the EU negotiated it out the UK hasn't.

 

[westernman]

In the EU it is what about the UK I think there is import duty because the EU negotiated it out the UK hasn't.

The above is the UK HMRC web site for imports into the UK from third countries - which includes the US.
And importing from just about every country. I have not come across any country from which an imported boat will be hit with a hefty import duty - including the EU.

 

[DoubleEnder]

……. Take your rose coloured spectacles off when looking at buying cheap old boats in the US or Caribbean……

really just out of idle curiosity, where are the cheap US/Caribbean boats advertised for sale? Is it just on Yachtworld or are there other more specific sites.

This is just boredom and curiosity. I’m not going to buy one. I’m in a different market
But thank you

 

[Motor_Sailor]

really just out of idle curiosity, where are the cheap US/Caribbean boats advertised for sale?

The cheap sales are usually posted on Craigslist. They are regional listings so for the real 'bargains' you need to look at southern Florida, Texas Gulf coast or inland Alabama for example. Narragansett Bay and Maine less so.