Buying A uSED Sunseekert

[EME]

I am about to make a dream come true , but beginning to realise how little I know about Boating. I am about to purchase a 1995 Sunseeker Portofino 400 from a dealer in the Med. There are however a number of worries that I have, can you help?

1) The boat is fitted with KAD42s, however at 3150 rpm the boat was only pulling about 15.5 knots and although I suspect the boat has not been antifouled for a year I was surprised at the low cruising performance. Engine hours are c. 460. Although the dealer was trimming constantlt at 3,800 rpm we were still only at about 18 knots - a lot less than claimed. The dealer blamed salt, the Med, everything aprt from me...any views?

2) If anyone cruises in the South of France , is it possible to lay the boat out of the water in the Winter and rent summer only berths? I've only seen annual berths so far.

3) Does anyone have any particular views on this particular model?

Thanks Very Much in anticipation

E Evans

 

[stewart]

I've just been through a similar exercise and bought a Camargue 46 (in the UK, but it goes to the Med next week). I had a look at a couple of Portofinos and liked the boat, but in the end preferred the extra space of the Camargue (but nothing more than personal preference). Both of the Portofinos performed significantly better than the one you tried and I would be extremely suspicious if I was you. If it hasn't been antifouled then this could affect performance, but if the previous owner has neglected this part of the maintenance then you have to wonder what other parts have been neglected. Don't buy a poorly maintained Sunseeker - they are painfully expensive to fix and are often bought as toys and then neglected once an owner gets bored, probably more so than less trendy marques, and there are plenty around to cho0se from.

One possible explanation for poor performance was a problem a friend of mine suffered recently. Their boat is kept in Mallorca, and after being idle for six weeks the prop was covered in barnacles which obviously affected performance. I don't know how common this is.

I suggest that if you really want the boat you've seen that you get a good survey on the engines and buy it subject to the existing owner completing whatever work is required to restore performance to something close to brochure spec.

 

[Guest]

That boat should be a lot faster and there must be a lot of weed on the bottom if she is slowed to that extent. Certainly fouling is much more of a problem in warm waters such as the Med than here in the UK but it can also suggest a bit of neglect.

The fact that the engines will pull 3800/3900 suggest there is not much wrong with them - I think these engines are rated at about 4200 full chat so with a heavily fouled bottom topping out at about 3800 sounds about right. There could be something wrong with the stern gear but this would tend to manifest itself in a lot of vibration as well as loss of speed.

Inattention to anti-fouling might also mean that anodes have not been changed so you could find corrosion to the stern gear is a problem.

The answer is that this is a major investment so get the boat professionally surveyed. You would not buy a house without a survey and for most people a boat has a monetary cost in the same league. If the survey comes up with problems, either get the price adjusted accordingly or walk away.

Nick

 

[EME]

Nick

Thanks very much for your assistance. I would suggest that there has been some neglect of the boat in the last couple of years. I do intend to have the boat (and its engines) seriously looked at. The broker has recently fitted new props to the drives. There si obviously something wrong , but the price is very right so I'm not sure what to do next...apart from having it all surveyed.

Kind Regards

E Evans

 

[Guest]

If it hasn't been antifouled for a year, then it will go slowly. As you, I'd tellim you'll consider again with clean bottom, which shd takwe only an hour, into lift, hold blast the gunge off and drop back in. Bit daft the broker hasn't done this, and almost certainly the problem. There are loads of other boats out there though. Have you had a look at something with shaft drives instead of stern drives? If the boat hasn't been looked after much then they'll be next to go. Shaft drives have gearboxes nicley inside abnd are easier to manoevre. But the portofino is v sexy looker.

Berthing in South of France. As a boat buyer, you cd tellem you'll buy as long as they can find you a space, but that will only be for the first season, and after that you're in the pile with everyone else. If you were the broker and had ten spaces, you'd rent them the space for year one, then tellem to clear off so that you cd sell other boats the next year. The only relaible way is to buy. Berth prices have gone up by over 25% in the last year, partly because there are no new marinas, partly cos majorca used to be cheaper but is now dearer, and partly becos one tiny marina (la figurette) was reposessed by the council and held buyers back. Now it's seen that it was a special case (a badly-run dump in a rich council's area) everyone is back in. A portofino berth might be um somewhere between 50 and 70 grand for around 20 years, depending upon where you are. If you don't buy, a fair bit of each holiday is spent grovelling to each marina to arrange a berth. You could try and organise one outfit to pull ashore, cover, and drop back in to a berth the next year.

I'd say it wd be best to buy from someone whose operation has some bulk, rather than a little broker who's just making a few quid on this one boat. Arie de boom are big guys at la napoule and la rague (which they own) near Cannes, with dealerships for searay and a big shed for boatfixing, and they own the marina.

Ancasta have a big operation in la napoule just next door and can usually sort out a berth. I'd imagine that they can also sort out a portofino too. 0033 49297 4890 for arie de boom in la rague. 0033 492 97 63 40 for ancasta. I can giev contacts if you want.

Are you dead set on a portofino and nothing else will do?

 

[EME]

Thaks very muchwith your input, everything is greatfully received. I'm going to have the boat surveyed and it's clear the boat is unedrprforming. What is a little worrying is that either someone has obviously gone to a lot of effort to cover up what ever the real fault is . or I'm being thick. The props were recently replaced...

Kind Regards

E Evans

 

[Guest]

Re: barnacles

barnacles quiote common, but fairly marina-dependent. If you can wander along the pontoons and have a good look at the boats there, you can see how big a problem for that marina.

 

[EME]

Thank You very much for your reply.

To deal with your last point first, I had been looking for a lrger day boat/overnighter/weekender with comfort in the South of France and the opportunity forthis boat just came up. I do like Sunseekers but the only other boat we have been serously considering is the Comanche 40, but my wife loves the accom on the 400 and it has ample deck space for our family /friends so seeems the perfect boat. Are we dead-set? No...but are unsure as to what else fits our needs , although I personally like the Cranchi Endurance.

I suspect but do not know that thedealer has had the boat out of the water, which makes me a little suspicious.

I would prefer a shaft drive boat but I never seem to view them ( not that I know which is which until I look closely!)...I think the Sterndrives may be the rpoblem...how much are they new/replacement??

Interesting on your knowledge of the area. We would hope to berth in La Rague, I do not know anyone in Arie de Boom ( or anywhere else for that matter)....as we have a holiday cottage between Grasse and Cannes, this seemed the ideal location, smaller than La Napoule and quieter , I have no problem with using them for maintenance etc...I'll have to speak to my wife to contact them.

Kind Regards

 

[stewart]

Re: barnacles

So are there any solutions to barnacles on the prop? Presumably the antifoul keeps them off the hull, but you can't really paint the props. I've heard of people putting plastic bags over the props when leaving the boat for a while but this is probably more realistic on outdrives than shafts. So if I'm committed to a particular marina then...... ???

 

[Guest]

la rague/arie de boom

La rague is ok, specially if you mainly live elsewhere. Otherwise bit distant for shops. For security, pretty darn good - only one way in and out. A friedn turned up, tried to leave a note on the boat, challenged immediately. Elizabeth runs the office for adB, speaks English, and old man deBoom (they're dutch) still works there now and again. Pierre Marechal is boatyard chap. AdB are the European seary dealers, so when you see an MBY searay test, it's often done around that bay. AdeB are also Fairline dealers: F'lines usually have more space than sunseeker for given length, but bit less erm tarty internal decor. At around 40feet, there'll be some boats with stern drives, some with shafts. Shafts mean propellors are under the keel, and all boats 50 foot plus are like this. Srtern drives mean that the engine is further back in the boat to save space, so when the drive come out at the back (transom) the props wd be too high, spinning in the wake: the sterndrive drops the props lower, so as you look down the back of the boat you can see the props, or at least some large "legs" exiting the back. Expect morespace with sterndrives, but a bit more maint aggro, others here know more abt em.

Good idea to have a look at the Italian boats, cheaper with strong pound. Bear in mind no rush right now -soon it'll be time to take it out.

 

[Guest]

Re: yup

Apparently there are spanish marinas where a few months lying about gives a nice thick coral effect all over the sterndrives. Some marinas have the lurgy more than others

To minimise barnacles theres are those ultrasound things (dunno if they work) or shaftdrives obv have props in more darkness under the hull instead of in nice bright water near surface where barnacles like it, or...I have toyed with the idea of fitting/making a "skirt" around the boat for when it's left for a while, hanging it down to make the waterline and under-hull area all dark, minimising weed and barnacles. Spose a heavy rubber sheets should do the trick, weight under neath, eyelets with rops to tie and adjust around, probably from midships and all around the back. For stern drives big binliners, or there are specially made things too. I bet MBM or PBO have done something abt this. Have they?

 

[Guest]

Re: ps

There are loads of boats for sale, not many berths. In fact, nearly every boat in every marina around there is for sale, at a reasonable price. Yes, really. But do make sure the berthing is sorted before you buy. This is essential. If you fancy a particular marina, don't imagine that you can just turn up and rent long-term easily. easiest is to buy and make a berth at least for the first season a pre-condition. Also, if it gets taken ashore at la rague, the trains going over the viaduct give off tiny flecks of iron from brakes or whatever, so get the boat fully covered up when not in use. Email me for contacts if u need more. no, I have no interest in any of the commercial outfits down there, but people drive miles to get to AdeBoom, one of very few proper shoreside engineering places on that coast for this size of boat.

 

[EME]

Re: la rague/arie de boom

Thanks.

La Rague definitely fits the bill for me, I know it is quiet but we frequently go down there to the restaurant of an eevening. Shops are otan issue for us as we will spend ittle time on the boat.

Thanks for the leads. It looks as if I should go and organise a Maintenance/Gardienage/lifting/mooring deal asap. At least introduce myself. Interestingly, I've been going to La Rague occasionally on the weekend for 6 years and I've never seen theAdB office open!

Your comments about Italian boats are very interesting as I've admired the Cranchi range for some time, but I'm afraid I've found the dealers in Golfe Juan less han helpful ..I've never even been able to view one, and I've not seen any other marques other than the Ferretti range at boat shows and Azimut ( my wife does not like flybridge...something to do with Patio doors). Any other interesting Italian marques that you know?

Kind Regards and Again Many Thanks

 

[Guest]

Re: la rague/arie de boom

Their opening hours are strictly seasonal, strictly french. So shut over lunch for an hour or two, and shut (always) after 7, and probably earlier and on sundays out of season. But the little men in vans still whizz around, with mobiles. Not many 40foot open boats: fairline 37, 38 and older 39s, newest is a 40, and also 43's but 200k+ 2nd hand. the cranchi is another another, sunseekers, and princess V39 and V40. Then there's smaller volume stuff like Gobbi. The searays are better these days with big big spaces, probably more room on their 36 than a sunseeker 40 cos they don't count the swimplatform, and their parts service from USA is fast.

Get a Buy/moor/guardiennage/guarantee deal. Thierry does the searays, Murray Bray (nice chap, english bloke, not usual heavy pressure sales type) is commercial director mobile 0033 614 34 79 09 and he's based at la Napoule 0033(0)4 92 97 48 88. If you do get a space, tellem you don't want to be next to any dive boats, which will wack you cos they go out twice a day whatever the weather. Good luck.

 

[Scubadoo]

Re: barnacles

Why not try International Paints - Veridan product which is new this year. It is basically a slippery coating that barncles etc just slide off either by the props turing or with a cloth/sponge.

I tried it on my boat this year - applied in Feb'01 and has kept my props and stern gear clean and I can maintain a higher top speed.

Or do as Matt has suggested put a binliner round the stern gear, a few years ago I read about a guy who developed a bag with poles that just slid on - he was trying to get commerical interest.

RM.

 

[Guest]

Just a thought but, If they are busy / short of money maybe they are waiting for a serious customer before bothering to investigate, or a customer with a surveyor to point out all the problems.
Tony