Buying a Seagull

Vid

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I need a small outboard for my dinghy. I only expect to use it occasionally to get to my moored boat - at other times I'll use the club trot boat - so I don't want to fork out £500 for a new 2.5hp four-stroke.

I see working Seagulls often go for less than £70 on internet auction sites, or I could get a professionally refurbished one for around £200.

I think I would be better off with a short-shaft 40 Plus model - the 40 minus seems to be paired down and less powerful for the same price so I may as well have that extra single horsepower.

Any reasons not to?
 

neil_s

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I have found Seagull outboards to be very reliable compared to modern motors, especially if only used occasionally. Modern outboards seem to die from corrosion very quickly if neglected, whereas the Seagull is made of better materials and is much simpler - therefore less to go wrong. They are, however, dirty, smelly, heavy, noisy and very good at trapping your fingers. My 40+ is 53 years old, works fine, but gets left in the shed most of the time.

Neil
 

VicS

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An awful lot of rubbish can go for silly money on ebay so be warned,

A 40+ will easily drive a dinghy of 10 ft and a bit more. They came as standard and long shaft versions. Late versions also had the option of a clutch.

A 40 Featherweight (aka 40 Minus) will drive up to about 8ft or so. It only came in one shaft length, which is about 2" shorter than a standard shaft 40+

Look at what you might be buying & take note of its overall condition. See it running to be sure it starts properly and that it pumps water through the system. No problem with impellers but the cooling systems can get blocked.

See the http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/ website for loads of info and also ask on the forum for specific advice http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/forum/index.php.

Remember that they are heavy, noisy, awkward, and messy to handle but a good one with a minimum of care will last longer than you!

I use a Featherweight on my 8ft tender. I also have 40+ which has hardly been used ... I ought to be selling that really.

Another website with useful info.
http://www.britishseagullparts.com/

Worth checking with John at SOS to see what he might have for sale.
 

oldharry

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Twister Ken is right; Seagulls belong in the museum - unless you 'love' old machinery.

Someone will come up very shortly on this thread to say theirs has run perfectly for 40 years and is the best thing since sliced bread. The rest of us know better, and know that Seagulls just do not measure up to engines designed in the last 10 - 15 years on almost every score.

But if you are happy to: leave an oil trail every time you cross the harbour; wear ear protection while using it; put up with the much lower thrust (in spite of those whopping great propellors!); happy to have oil/petrol dripping all over the car boot when you take it home; then forget it.

One of their more pernicious habits is refusing to start if the leg is immersed too deep. So if you have a small dinghy it will only start if you are sitting in the bows!

You get what you pay for - there are a number of very good reasons why they sell so cheaply compared to newer engines. One of my favourite nostalgic childhood holiday memories is the sound of a Seagull engine on a calm morning at half a mile range..... nuff said?
 

TrueBlue

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I love my seagull(s)

Well, that's a bit over the top. Something has to be said for an engine that was developed for the military - designed for some abuse.

OK, smelly, noisy, smokey and exposed rotating parts (flywheel)

Plus points,
  • Light (well 40 models)
  • easy to fix
  • rugged
  • Inexpensive to buy
  • Most parts available.
  • Less likely to be pinched
  • Can be sunk and restored to life

They're not over smokey if you buy a later model and run it on 25:1 (I use 20:1)
I use mine on the river and the aluminium prop copes with weeds, mud and the occasional obstruction.
You should be able to get one off eBay for no more than £70.
Go for one with little rust on the shaft tube and nuts.
40+ with a clutch is best, but rarer, unclutched models are fine for sea use.

I have a Mercury 4HP - awkward to use and much heavier
A Honda 2hp, a bit lighter than the 'gull, lots of plastic parts to break, and the prop is tiny - plastic.

The 'gull gets left on the dinghy all through the season - the others don't.
Nuff said.
 

ValleyForge

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If you want an engine just to move you about buy a modern one. If you want the pure distilled essence of mucking about in boats then a Seagull is for you.
 

oldharry

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See! Said someone would come in saying how wonderful they are!

The military use bit is a bit of an Urban myth - and if there is any truth in it then the design is getting on for 70 years old! Good enough then, but the army use modern outboards now same as the rest of us.

Less likely to be pinched - good point. I wonder why?

Can be sunk and restored to life: in 40 years boating I have comprehensively dunked three dinghy engines - none of them Seagulls, and had them all running fine again within an hour or two. One - a 4hp Johnson - was in 16ft of water for several days - and was running perfectly again within an hour of being lifted. I dont recommend it though!

Yes, lovely evocative old engines - but thats all.
 

wotayottie

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Got one as a backup for the modern outboard - dont use it very much. I'm quite good mechanicking wise (though I say it myself) and the Seagull is easy to smarten up / refurbish. I think its quite a good idea, certainly better than spending £50 on an old Jap o/b which will have corroded badly. I wouldnt dream of using a Seagull as the full time o/b though.

Ask round your club rather than use Ebay or the boat jumbles. A lot of sailors have an Old Seagull in the garden shed and never / rarely use it. Which tells you something about them!

I reckon you cant call yourself a cruiser unless you've had one. It's a right of passage.
 

pappaecho

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I dont agree with Seagull belong in a museum. Looked after they are a great bit of kit, though heavy and agricultural. They have standardised parts, and rarely go wrong. One problem is that most people are not aware that there is both a condenser and a set of points under the flywheel, and that every 10 years or so they require a bit of maintenance. As a kid we used a Seagull with 16:1 petrol mixture, and now 50 years later the same engine runs at 50:1, so I do not regard them as being polluting or smelly, it is just that they were rather over oiled "in them days."
Seagulls can be left in the shed for years and will start first time without the problems which modern outboards show with regard to aged petrol which causes blockages of the carburettors due to a gel like substance. I have both a Seagull and a 2.2 Suzuki, which is only reliable if the petroil is either new or filtered if over 3 months old. Thieves like a nice modern outboard to steal, and will not give the Seagull a second glance
 

doug748

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Thieves like a nice modern outboard to steal, and will not give the Seagull a second glance

Yep, not much chance of a quick getaway carrying a Seagull.

Actually I rather like them, as long as you keep them out of the boat or the car. Ideal to putter out to the mooring and leave attached.
 

Tranona

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The military use bit is a bit of an Urban myth - and if there is any truth in it then the design is getting on for 70 years old! Good enough then, but the army use modern outboards now same as the rest of us.

Yes, lovely evocative old engines - but thats all.

No, not an Urban myth! Absolutely true. The MOD ordered 5000 model 102s in 1943 as part of the preparations for D Day landings. Spec required that they run in any conditions, but could be discarded once troops were on dry land. Very successful and many provided motive power for many years for French fishermen! They were made in and around Poole with components made in various little workshops and peoples' garages. Assembled in a small building on Poole Quay.

The 102 was the mainstay in the early post war years, but in the 1950s was gradually replaced by the Century models, still 102cc but separate block and aluminium head. Most other components were "productionised" and no longer had the tool room made look. The 64cc 40 models were also introduced to meet the demand for outboards for yacht tenders. Fantastically successful, but you have to remember what rubbish the competition were producing. It was only in the late 70's (which is when I worked there) that the Japanese came out with superior products, but it was only when they reduced prices and Seagull prices went up that they made any impression on the market. In my last full year there we sold over 25000 engines world wide including nearly 4000 in North America and one major order for 2000 engines for Malaysian fishermen. A success story for its era - all this out of a collection of sheds in the marshes on the edge of Poole Harbour.

Whilst I quite happily accept modern engines as being well suited to their task, there is still a place for a well kept Seagull. I expect mine (already over 30 years old) to outlast me!
 

Twister_Ken

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Lots of things the military used in 1944 which they wouldn't use now because they've been superceded by better kit. Tin hats, leather boots, bolt action rifles, radio sets the size of suitcases, webbing, gas capes, PIATs, bren gun carriers, 15cwt trucks, Sherman tanks, etc. Sure, most of those things would still work, if well maintained for sixty years, but why bother?
 

Heckler

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See! Said someone would come in saying how wonderful they are!

The military use bit is a bit of an Urban myth - and if there is any truth in it then the design is getting on for 70 years old! Good enough then, but the army use modern outboards now same as the rest of us.

Less likely to be pinched - good point. I wonder why?

Can be sunk and restored to life: in 40 years boating I have comprehensively dunked three dinghy engines - none of them Seagulls, and had them all running fine again within an hour or two. One - a 4hp Johnson - was in 16ft of water for several days - and was running perfectly again within an hour of being lifted. I dont recommend it though!

Yes, lovely evocative old engines - but thats all.
Harry
spot on, an old yam or equiv 2 stroke 2hp is a thousand times better than a seagull. I dunked my suzy 2hp overnight, it was running in less than an hour, and went to finland with my old boat 2 years later.
Old technology, ok for playing with BUT if you want reliability, not much weight and good fuel consumption forget seagulls!
Stu
 

oldharry

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As a kid we used a Seagull with 16:1 petrol mixture, and now 50 years later the same engine runs at 50:1, so I do not regard them as being polluting or smelly, it is just that they were rather over oiled "in them days."

No, no , no, no, no! DONT run it at 50:1. You will destroy it.
Dont take my word for it: look at the 'Saving Old Seagulls' FAQ page on oil ratios:

www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/faq/faq.htm

John - the national expert on Seagulls says there '...they need the oil or they self destruct'. What he doesnt know about the Seagull is not worth knowing. Fascinating site, which also carries a warning about EBay cons - like the guy selling drive springs at a tenner + P&P. New ones cost £3.50!

Oh by the way, I actually have two of them at present - and no they are not for sale. See, I love old engines. But I would never dream of relying on either of them. But then I run a late '50s Albin 22 with about 200 hours use, in my yacht. Brilliant engine! nothing like it on the market nowadays. I have three more of them for spares, but so far never had to replace anything except the water pump impellor.
 

Blueboatman

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If you want a Seagull, say just to 'get it out of your system', the ones to go for are the later ones with plastic tank and electronic ignition--still noisy and thirsty but good starters.

For a really 'intersting' piece of archaic engineering you should have a look at the Seagull Inboard engine ( I kid you not)
 

ghostlymoron

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I love my Seagull, it's a 40 featherweight I think and was bought for £50 quid off ebay some years ago. Although it was a runner and had never been used in seawater, I spent a further £40 restoring it. I was attracted by the evocative image of the sailor with kitbag over shoulder and Seagull in hand. It's sitting in my garage now - and has been for the last 2 years - only emerging for a quick run in the wheelie bin to check it's still working. I bought it to use on the dinghy to get out to my boat in the sheltered lagoon where we moor but I've found that carrying it over from the car park, about half a mile away is much more effort than carrying the oars and it also requires petroil, so thats a can to carry as well!
When I have used it, it performs very well on 1:25 mix but I find the lack of a clutch a bit awkward. When I leave the pontoon, I have to remember to untie the painter before starting unless I want to take the cleat with me and when approaching the boat I have sometimes been caught out by the lack of steering once the motor is cut.
Still, its a thing of beauty - I think I'll go and give it a rub over with an oily rag!
 

forethought

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Seagulls

They are horrible engines.


But they will keep running when your nice little Japanese engine has overheated and warped. The Seagull just stops when it gets too hot.

Rust in steel fuel tanks makes them unreliable. Fuel pipes falling off while engine is running because you had to empty the rust out of the fuel pipe makes them unreliable.

Burning your hand on the exhaust pipe hurts. Melts holes in car boot liners.

You cant get the cylinder head off either without shearing rusted in bolts. - Mine had no water flow and needed the rust drilling out of the waterways.

A lot of noise , and a lot of weight and about 4 times the fuel consumption of a Tohatsu 3.5. (I have a Silver Century circa 1977, which I was "made" to use for a year by my wife as a punishment for having a previous Tohatsu stolen)

Mine was a gift from someone who had been given it by somebody else. I still have memories from the early 70's when the club rescue boat was a clinker built boat with a Seagull. If you capsized well away from it it would never get to you before you righted your boat and sailed off .
 
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Pete7

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Oooo, this thread should be titled marmite. No idea how old this one is but probably the same age as me. I am saving it for my retirement :)

Pete
 
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