howard easton
N/A
Why should you finance the deal? Why not the dealer? I wouldnt pay before the handover and survey under any circumstamces.
Buying a new boat: Escrow account for deposit?
- Thread starter Sticky Fingers
- Start date
Why should you finance the deal? Why not the dealer? I wouldnt pay before the handover and survey under any circumstamces.
ip485
Well-Known Member
Brilliant - a very good solution and enjoy.
Sticky Fingers
Well-Known Member
Well, that was partly my point when I opened this thread - it was what was on the table. My money at risk, not the dealer. Getting to this point has taken a lot of effort.
Sticky Fingers
Well-Known Member
Cheers
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Then you will never buy a mass produced boat through a dealer. You have to remember there are two parties to a contract and both have to be happy. The dealer is financing it to the extent that he has to pay for the boat to be released from the factory. So the negotiation is around the point at which you pay the dealer. I was quite happy to pay when the boat was finished at the factory and have title to the boat at the earliest opportunity.
Don't see the point in having a surveyor check a new mass produced boat, although from the tales I have heard of the problems experienced by buyers of more upmarket boats your point of view would prevail!
It is all about having confidence in both the factory making the boat and the people you are dealing with. The build processes in factory built boats are more akin to car factories rather than craft operations still used to build low volume boats and it shows in the consistency in the product.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
You just tell the bank in advance and have the funds in the account. My large payment (well over that amount) went through on the card machine without any problem.
sailaboutvic
Well-Known Member
Tranona ,
I have to disagree , it's nothing to do with having confidence in both the factory making the boat and the people you are dealing with ,
It's more to safe guard your money .
Company's can easily go under has we seen time and time again .
When I brought our new boat in 2009 the dealer wanted not only our Moody 336 as PX and valves more then the 15% deposit, buy also the full payment for the new boat one month before delivery,
from day one I told them I wasn't going to pay any funds until the boat was in the brokers yard ,they had my PX boat on their hard as their deposit , other wise there was no deal ,
Time and time again they tried to move the payment before Delivery ,
first it was two weeks , then when photos was sent to show it was on the truck ,
but I held out with the agree terms , once the truck arrive , I will press a few buttons on their PC and they can have the funds . In the end that's what happen , I was quite happy to walk away from he deal then to have it any other way .
If you buy a car you pay for it on the day you get it not when it's still being made ,
same goes if your buying a house , on the day of completion , not the day you view it ,
so why should a boat be any different .
If the brokers don't want to risk their money why should the buyer ,
after all they are getting a big chunk for selling the boat .
Ok some will say that chunk include getting the boat ready and sorting out problem , but they not doing it free , They getting paid for it and your paying it .
I have to disagree , it's nothing to do with having confidence in both the factory making the boat and the people you are dealing with ,
It's more to safe guard your money .
Company's can easily go under has we seen time and time again .
When I brought our new boat in 2009 the dealer wanted not only our Moody 336 as PX and valves more then the 15% deposit, buy also the full payment for the new boat one month before delivery,
from day one I told them I wasn't going to pay any funds until the boat was in the brokers yard ,they had my PX boat on their hard as their deposit , other wise there was no deal ,
Time and time again they tried to move the payment before Delivery ,
first it was two weeks , then when photos was sent to show it was on the truck ,
but I held out with the agree terms , once the truck arrive , I will press a few buttons on their PC and they can have the funds . In the end that's what happen , I was quite happy to walk away from he deal then to have it any other way .
If you buy a car you pay for it on the day you get it not when it's still being made ,
same goes if your buying a house , on the day of completion , not the day you view it ,
so why should a boat be any different .
If the brokers don't want to risk their money why should the buyer ,
after all they are getting a big chunk for selling the boat .
Ok some will say that chunk include getting the boat ready and sorting out problem , but they not doing it free , They getting paid for it and your paying it .
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maby
Well-Known Member
I don't think that is true - but you may well end up paying more for it than you otherwise would have. When we were negotiating on a new Jeanneau, we told the dealer that we were not prepared to hand over anything more than a small deposit until we saw the boat in the water and ready to sail away, but we were prepared to pay the cost of any bank loan he would have to take out in order to finance the transaction.
Sticky Fingers
Well-Known Member
Hi Maby, that was an option but as it's turned out the dealer has done this (ie financed the boat to a floating handover) at their cost, not mine other than a10% deposit. So that's good.
I've now had the finance approvals and got the final paperwork so will sign this weekend.
I've now had the finance approvals and got the final paperwork so will sign this weekend.
pvb
Well-Known Member
Hi Maby, that was an option but as it's turned out the dealer has done this (ie financed the boat to a floating handover) at their cost, not mine other than a10% deposit. So that's good.
I've now had the finance approvals and got the final paperwork so will sign this weekend.
Excellent! So, go on, tell us what you're buying...
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
I'm amazed at how clunky and amateur the whole boat dealership set up often seems to be. I've never bought a new car - if I did, would I be expected to hand over the full purchase price to the dealer well before getting my hands on it?
pvb
Well-Known Member
No, with a new car you'd probably only be asked for a token deposit. Then, when you collect the car, pay the balance with a debit card or banker's draft.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
That's what I thought. The boat equivalent is as daft as the broker system, in which we are told that purchase of a boat is so complicated and fraught with hazard that the only safe thing to do is to entrust it to a member of a completely unregulated profession requiring no qualifications or insurance and who is employed for and therefore only responsible to the other party in the deal.
Of course there are good, diligent, honest brokers, just as there are probably good, diligent, honest dealers but by golly the boat selling world doesn't really seem to have adjusted much to the last few decades, does it?
pvb
Well-Known Member
Certainly not, in my experience. Looking back, I was very lucky to escape losing a 6-figure sum to a load of sharks!
ashtead
Well-Known Member
It seems there is a happy solution to this matter and hopefully little risk of dealer insolvency however all this hassle would be avoided if the dealers trade association (what does BMF do otherwise? ) was required to put in place a proper scheme whereby deposits were paid into statutory trust accounts or if risk transfer operated so receipt by the dealer operated as payment to the builder. It is as has been said amazing that given the safeguards which exist real property and payments to insurance brokers that no satisfactory scheme of protection exists for consumers in the field of boat purchase particularly given values involved. It would be open to manufactures to obtain credit insurance to cover the risk of dealer default which realistically is not a solution available to individual purchasers and as they are responsible for dealer appointment they would have the ability to measure creditworthiness of a dealer. I doubt however given the minority of people purchasing new boats there is little appetite from any consumer body to champion this cause though or for government to introduce any form of control over boat dealers who seem even less regulated than estate and letting agents. .
maby
Well-Known Member
I think the trouble is that boats are as expensive as houses, but sold like cars. We bought our new-build house direct from the builder who was a big company that could easily afford to carry the build cost until the day that the keys were handed over to us. This would be the equivalent of purchasing directly from Jeanneau or Bavaria. But boats are generally bought on the same basis as cars with a local dealer in the middle that is not a division of the builder - and too small to comfortable carry the cost of two or three boats in transaction - quite possibly well on the way to a million pounds.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
But he did not take it up! So it seems.
maby
Well-Known Member
Yes, he did - it was us that decided to go elsewhere.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Number of misconceptions here. First it is a dealer, not a broker you are buying from. He may well also be a broker but not in the transaction of selling you a new boat. He is, like you risking his own money as he has to buy the boat from the factory.
I assume you have read my experience, which is very different from yours, and along with the OP was able to negotiate a deal that suited me. This incidentally included sharing thee gain from the change in the exchange rate since the list price was set.
It is about confidence. Knowing as far as possible that the people you are dealing with are financially secure. Knowing that the factory will produce a boat that has no defects on time. Confident that the commissioning and sea trials will be done properly. Having bought one boat from the factory (through a different dealer) that was trouble freeis a good confidence booster. Doing due diligence on the dealer and building a good relationship during the negotiations are essentials.
As you see from my account, everything worked out as expected.
Not saying that all transactions with all dealers go well, but in my view it takes two parties to make a good contract that delivers and it is not always the other party that causes problems!
Tranona
Well-Known Member
This has been discussed on a number of occasions, but why should dealers and brokers who act honestly have to finance a scheme that is of no benefit. As I suggested earlier most losses have been where boats are in build and purchased direct from a builder. There is scant evidence (apart from Opal and Trader) that any buyers have lost out through a dealer failing to deliver. Similarly there is little evidence of wrong doing by brokers.
An insurance business is based on the assessment of risk. How can you assess risk when there is no data? Unlike the law Society scheme of medical negligence where there is more than enough evidence to assess the risk and establish premiums. In other fields like home improvements where people regularly lose large sums of money, insurance schemes are common, and often compulsory for members of trade associations.
The reality is that buying boats, either new or used through the "trade" is extremely low risk.
