Buying a boat in spain

[Barcelona Canuck]

Hi ,

I am new to the site and had a question about buying a boat in Spain. First off, I am a Canadian citizen/resident but work in Africa (29 days on) and "live" in Barcelona during my time off (27 days off) . I have done a fair bit of research and understand the tax/residency situation so I'm not really looking for any advice in that regard. However, I do have the following questions:

1. As a Canadian resident can I own a boat registered in Spain or will I need to register it in Canada? I do have a Spanish post office box but that's it. I also have family in Bermuda and could register it there, no doubt expensively.

2. Any advice regarding the legal process of buying a boat in Spain, even possibly a lawyer and/or broker recommendation? Any serious pit falls to look out for: bureaucratic snafu's / scams etc.

Thanks

Budd

 

[PlanB]

I believe you can own a Spanish registered boat. The requirement to hold a Spanish qualification has been removed. If you search the Liveaboard forum there are loads of threads about this.

 

[Tony Cross]

We bought our boat in Spain, but we're UK residents and hence EU citizens so that might make a difference. The process was painless, we bought through a broker (De Valk, they're Dutch) and used the UK MCA Bill Of Sale form. There were no problems, no hiccups, and no red tape.

 

[JamesFrance]

I believe you can own a Spanish registered boat. The requirement to hold a Spanish qualification has been removed. If you search the Liveaboard forum there are loads of threads about this.

Can you provide an official link to this? My understanding was that the only removed requirement was that of having to re-register your boat in Spain when becoming resident there. This was what absolved you from holding Spanish qualifications.

 

[PlanB]

Ah, you´re right, sorry. Didn´t think this one right through
So, to the original OP - consider whether you will be able to pass the Spanish licence test before buying a Spanish boat.

 

[RAI]

Your boat is nominally required to be registered in the country of your residence but their are exceptions and you may be able to register it in Canada. The UK example is that a Brit can register a boat under part I and not be resident in the UK. Part III (SSR) needs UK residence. I don't know if Canada has a similar rule. With the usual 183 day tax residence rule, it looks like you should be formally resident in South Africa, if the 27/29 day ratio is precise, the boat could be flagged there. However, watch out for the VAT status of a non-EU flagged boat maintained in the EU.

Regarding the legal issues, be careful, if anything goes wrong, getting justice can be a long process in Spain. Maybe take out some legal insurance well in advance.

 

[macd]

RAI: no-one mentioned South Africa.

"The UK example is that a Brit can register a boat under part I and not be resident in the UK."
More fully, the following are eligible to register on Part 1:
British Citizen
British Dependent Territories Citizen
British Overseas Citizen
company incorporated in one of the EEA countries
citizen of an EU member state exercising rights under articles 48 or 52 of the EU Treaty in the UK
company incorporated in any British overseas possession which have its principal place of business in the UK or those possessions
European Economic Interest Groupings

None of which sound terribly Canadian.

 

[Ludd]

RAI: no-one mentioned South Africa.

"The UK example is that a Brit can register a boat under part I and not be resident in the UK."
More fully, the following are eligible to register on Part 1:
British Citizen
British Dependent Territories Citizen
British Overseas Citizen
company incorporated in one of the EEA countries
citizen of an EU member state exercising rights under articles 48 or 52 of the EU Treaty in the UK
company incorporated in any British overseas possession which have its principal place of business in the UK or those possessions
European Economic Interest Groupings

None of which sound terribly Canadian.

Macd: suggest you read the ORIGINAL post----Africa is somewhat prominent in it.

 

[macd]

Macd: suggest you read the ORIGINAL post----Africa is somewhat prominent in it.

And, Ludd, I suggest that you read the original post, and maybe re-read mine. The OP mentions South Africa precisely zero times.

 

[Barcelona Canuck]

Ok, well thanks so far. I'll just clear up a few things. I am working in Gabon, in west Africa. I won't be considered a resident there under any circumstances as I am there on a specific type of work visa. My residency will remain Canadian and I have no interest in getting any kind of EU or UK residency as my current situation means i work, legally, tax free, it's complicated. So, I just wondering if anyone knows specifically about a foreigner registering a boat in Spain, non EU resident specifically. And finally, as for the Spanish qualification, Im not too worried as I do speak Spanish and would probably just need to brush up on nautical terms. Once thing perhaps is that it might just be easiest to register the boat in Canada or in Bermuda where I have family but I would still like to know about the Spanish option as well! Thanks in advance!

Budd

 

[Tranona]

You really need to talk to a Spanish broker and lawyer to find out what is possible. There are three main issues. The first is your status in Spain, second the legal status of the boat and third the tax position. You may well find different solutions depending on the answers to each question. For example in Spain it is compulsory to register a boat or have evidence of registration elsewhere. If registration is outside the EU and you are a non EU resident you may well have limits on how you can use the boat, as normally non EU residents can only "import" a boat and use it for 18 months before tax becomes due or it is taken out of the EU. However this may not apply if the boat is not imported but already in the EU and tax has been paid.

All sorts of people own boats and keep them in Spain, so I am pretty sure your situation is not unique, so if you speak to one of the large brokers you should get good advice - but be aware that Spain is not an easy country to get clear interpretations of the law!

 

[Monique]

I'm Canadian too. Beware... a non EU citizen will be forced out of EU every 180 days I believe.

I bought a UK registered boat in Spain. I live in Majorca and kept the boat registered in UK, using a mate's address. Not fully kosher but worked for me.

PM me if you want a good Spanish lawyer

Good luck

 

[All_at_Sea]

Have you found a boat yet, maybe the broker has some ideas....

 

[TQA]

Investigate the VAT situation on any boat you buy. I understand that you would be liable if it has not been paid at some time in the future. DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE REQUIRED..

UK part 1 registration might be the way to go and would make the boat simpler to sell in EU sometime in the future. OOPS Maybe Canucks can't get Pt 1.

 

[Tranona]

Investigate the VAT situation on any boat you buy. I understand that you would be liable if it has not been paid at some time in the future. DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE REQUIRED..

UK part 1 registration might be the way to go and would make the boat simpler to sell in EU sometime in the future. OOPS Maybe Canucks can't get Pt 1.

VAT and registration are largely unconnected.

VAT is complicated, but essentially if you buy a used boat from a private EU citizen then it is unlikely that VAT has not been paid correctly - and in many countries (such as Spain) the registration papers will confirm that. However boats can be registered in EU countries and not have VAT paid on them - for example owned by a VAT registered entity and used in business or kept outside the EU. VAT then becomes payable if the boat is imported into the EU or sold to a private individual. However a non EU resident can keep a boat in the EU without paying VAT on a temporary basis. A non EU resident can also own a boat in the EU that has had VAT paid on it, and subsequently sell it without any further VAT liability. However, if any boat that has had VAT paid on it (or deemed VAT paid based on age) leaves the EU it may then become liable for the tax if it is subsequently re-imported.

That is just examples of common simple scenarios and there are other more obscure situations so you have to assess each individual situation on the facts surrounding the boat and the individual.

 

[jimbaerselman]

I'm Canadian too. Beware... a non EU citizen will be forced out of EU every 180 days I believe.

Not quite correct . . . non-EU citizens who only have visitor visas will have time constraints on:

(a) how long they can stay within the Schengen Group of countries (90 days out of any 180) - which are treated as one country for border and immigration control
(b) how long they can stay in UK - a separate country from Schengen - as is the Republic of Ireland.

But these rules are immigration rules, and nothing to do with your boat. Longer term residential visas are obtainable in some conditions - enquire of local embassies in your home country.

 

[missArthur]

Re point 2) seek advice from a local "Gestoria" to ensure paperwork is properly done and to have someone who knows the (possibly tedious) processes. He will also check for any debt in the vessel, which you need to be careful with, as it follows the object (the vessel), not the owner.

 

[Paulken]

Hi there

which part of spain are you going to put the boat ? I have a berth in spain in alicante marina. 12m by 4.8m