Buying a berth in Spain?

[Medskipper]

MDL are building a new marina in Spain, about 90 miles from Barcelona. It will be ready in 2 years time according to MDL.

Would you buy a berth?

They are selling off quite a number of the berths to help pay to start the building, 20mtr, 15mtr and some smaller ones. I have been told that the price is very keen and that the market will always be good for resale, what do the learned members of this forum think?

The 20mtr berths are about £70k and the 15mtr berths are about £50k. Both will be on a 30 year lease but as the berth will not be available for use for the next two years people are really only getting 28 years. Of course you have to fully pay now, well by the middle of next year.

Anybody got a berth in Spain? anyone think its a good deal? resale values etc?

Barry

 

[tcm]

Yep, buy one if you can use one.

 

[mont]

Will they take an early bird deposit with the balance later ?
What assurances are there that it will be actually ready in two years ?
Where is the money held ?
Apart from the above I have a passing interest also in future Costa berthing.

 

[Medskipper]

Thanks for that tcm, but would you care to give your reasons why? Do you have a berth in Spain? Do you know what the market is like for resale etc. I just don't know if the price is a fair one and they need a yes straight away or according to them I will have missed the Boat! so to speak!

Barry


Barry

 

[Sinbad2222]

Where did you find the prices? Looking at the MDL website it just says special price for first 4 years.
I wonder if one could sub-let or will they tie you up legally like they have in Ocean Village so you can't.
I would be very interested in this if I could park my boat there and live on it through the winter.
I also wonder what they are going to do about the Cornish quarry marina, I think they call it Penlee, anybody know?

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

I think all the 20m berths have already been sold.

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[Medskipper]

They have sent me a package to purchase one. Yes you can sublet according to them. They have told me that most are now sold.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

On the plus side these berths are cheap for Spain and the W Med in particular. A 15m berth in Majorca would cost £100 - £150k and thats with only 12 yrs left on the lease (the majority of marinas in Majorca will shortly have their leases reassigned to 2018)
On the minus side, there are various factors. Its a long way from a major airport which IMHO is a big disadvantage, its in an area which is affected by the Golf de Lion weather systems and may be windier than other areas and I'm not sure how good the cruising area is in terms of having a choice of anchorages and other harbours to visit locally
It is certainly worthy of further investigation and if you intend to spend long periods on your boat, the distance from an airport and the possibly windy weather may not be a big minus but if your time on your boat is limited to short stays it might be too much of a journey from an airport
The other issue is how easy it will be to rent your berth out. Are there any restrictions like having to rent it out thru the marina offices?
Given the pressure on W Med berths though, I would say that a berth here might be a good investment but check out first what berths cost to buy in other marinas on the same coast

 

[Hurricane]

Yep - I've managed to reserve an option on one.

The deal is this
Holding deposit and offer for contract already paid
Sign contract and 30% plus VAT etc less holding deposit in Jan / Feb 2007
Second 30% payment 6 months later
Final payment on completion

Now to the site - SWMBO and I have been out there to see the place - I can post some pics if anyone is interested.
Located between Barcelona and Valencia on the south edge of the Ebre river delta. The site is tucked away behind a nice lagoon (about 8 miles long by about 1 mile and a half wide). We took a hire boat out onto the lagoon - it is about 6m deep mostly and well out from the town - should be good. Even got some restaurants on stilts out in the lagoon - have a look on Google Earth - it;s quite clear where it will be.
The coast south is a bit boreing but there seems to be a few bays north (the other side of the delta) and it is only 100 miles ish from Mallorca etc.

The marina is going to be owned by a Spanish company (Sant Carles Marina SA) but MDL hold 65% of the stock.
The whole thing is proposed to be an English style marina. Indeed, our berth and most will be standard UK style floating pontoons - same wood to water ratio as in the UK. I dont like the Med style of pushing yourself backwards into your valuable spot and having the next door rubbing up against you. Imagine - walking down the side of your boat IN THE MED!!!. They intend installing a swimming pools along with a yacht club, spas and tenis courts etc.

The service charges are probably a bit steep for the Med but will be index linked to the Catalan RPI. The 20m service charge is quoted at 2205 euros.

The town of Sant Carles is very Spanish - which we like.
Sorry, Clive, when we did our courses at Suncoast earlier this year both SWMBO and I found it a bit too English.

We flew into Reus (about 50 mins from the site) - Took the Ryanair 99p deal - yes it worked (actually about £15 with taxes etc)
SWMBO and I had a couple of days at Sant Carles and then travelled for another 3 days down to Alicante stopping at other marinas to see what it was all like. The further south we got the more English it became.
Flew back from Alicante for £30 each - Easyjet.

I think all the 20m berths are taken - we had to push hard for ours but the whole deal seems quite attractive.

So we are now expecting to sign up for a berth thats too big for our boat - guess what that means?
Anyone want a good Sealine?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

V interesting, Hurricane. Did you check out berth purchase costs at other marinas on that coast? Will the marina have hardstanding and other maintenance services?

 

[Hurricane]

Hi Mike

I think I covered most of the points in my other post.
The way I see it is you will be allowed to rent out the berth as long as the marina is aware of it (they say for security reasons). They also say there will be no charge from them.
Also, if they rent it out their fee will be 10%.

Here's a bit of a catch.
They want first refusal if you decide to assign the lease.
I can see a few problems here - not well enough defined yet.

 

[Hurricane]

Mike - our posts are crossing

Yep - we did check prices at other marinas.
Denier 20m berth from the marina office indicates 220,000 euros but I know a friend with a 15m berth ther who paid 60,000 euros 3 years ago and recons it is worth about 80,000 euros now. The Sant Carles 15m ones are 72,000 euros ish - but pontoons.

Hardstanding - masses of room - the plan is the dredging operation will provide the base for their boat yard and other services and a small ferry terminal but I cant see why they want that they already have one. There was some talk of a 100ton travelling hoist - Ive just checked my photos - it looks like there's already a 50 ton lift in the old marina.

I'll have a quick sort out on the photos and post a few.

Mike

 

[Hurricane]

OK here are some pics of Sant Carles - as it is now.

I took this photo off a notice board in the town - the arrow points to the site of the new marina.

The west end of the town

The actual site

The site that the marina will be - view from a hire boat.

Oyster farm out in the lagoon

The west side of the lagoon

Restaurant out in the lagoon - only way to this is by boat.

As you can see they have loads of work to do.
I understand that the site manager starts before Xmas and that work actually starts early in the new year.
They are very "upbeat" about finishing the phase 1 in time for the 2008 season.

 

[Lozzer]

I live and work in Puerto Banus.

18m berths are currently selling for around €850k on a 62 year lease. If you want a 26m then you are paying around €1.7m and 30m are around €3m if I remember correctly.

five years ago they were probably selling for half of these prices.

Given annual rents on 18m berths is €60k the payback isnt long. The harbour rate is about €30k but guess what? The harbour dont own any spare so you cant get one even if you try.

I rented a 18m berth for 10 weeks during the summer and it cost me €10k plus electricity and water. I managed to get a deal from a friend so was lucky.

On the face of it there are not enough berths for boats so the value should always hold up, but that is the risk you take.

IF you want to keep your boat there indefiantely then buying makes sense, you also have the option of selling your boat with a mooring if you ever want to get out.

IT is tricky but I am sure you will make an informed decision.

One key thing is do not pay any B money for a marina berth. If you do, dont expect to be able to sell it with B money again. Word on the street is that harbours will notified of any transactions and they have the right to bid. All they have to offer is 1 cent more and you must transact with them. so you try and sell taking 25% under the table and you could end up losing out big style.

 

[Medskipper]

Thanks for that Mike, MDL say that you can rent it out yourself, so no restrictions.
I will try and check out other costs etc.

Barry

 

[Medskipper]

Many Thanks for the pictures and info, very grateful, it does seem to be a good deal. I have been offered a 15mtr berth. I think I am going to have it!

Many Thanks

Barry

 

[Hurricane]

Go for it
But make sure you get one of the pontoon berths IMHO

I think there will also be an opportunity to upgrade in Jan/Feb when the real money is being put down.

Here's the artists marina plan

 

[Medskipper]

I'll be on Z pontoon!

 

[Hurricane]

Looks the place to be IMHO.
We were going to be on Y but upsized to V pontoon.
Should be the sunny side of the marina and not too far from the pool and offices etc.

 

[simon]

FAO Hurricane

Mike
I am going out to Sant Carles on Friday to look around. We have reserved a berth on Y Pontoon.
I see from your post that you hired a small boat to check out the site and the lagoon
Do you have a contact number for the boat hire?
Simon