Butane won't stay lit?

[DangerousPirate]

Could you just throttle the valve on the bottle back to only being open by a tiny fraction to reduce gas flow?

I had a similar-ish issue with my Ooni gas oven, opening the valve quickly can (apparently) cause a bubble in the regulator which disturbs gasflow. Felt like nonsense after using gas bottles all my days on the boat, but seems to work on the pizza oven.

I did think about that for a moment, but it works now, the boat is still here, and if I turn it on now, it just works fine. Issue resolved. But it was very weird.

 

[Boathook]

My gas cooker doesn't light well after not being used for quite a while. Its as though the gas has gone stale. I have to purge well and then light on a low flame. After a few seconds back to normal.

 

[thinwater]

No-one has asked what is the ambient and gas bottle temperature ............ Butane is not suited to winter use and is why Propane is blended to create a But - Prop mix .... in many countries such as where I am in Latvia - its Propane with only a touch of butane if any ...

Here's a generalised summary :

What's the difference between Butane and Propane? - Classic Motorhome Owner

Butane for Summer ... Propane for Winter.

^^^ This. A fuels guy point to the correct answer.

It is well known that butane stoves are piss in the winter. The boiling point is 30.2F and the pressure is quite poor below about 50F.

 

[penfold]

It's well over zero in the UK right now, butane has no difficulty evaporating.

 

[VicS]

^^^ This. A fuels guy point to the correct answer.

It is well known that butane stoves are piss in the winter. The boiling point is 30.2F and the pressure is quite poor below about 50F.

But it is not the explanation in this case. As Penfold points out it is very mild now and has been for several weeks, Moreover the flame in the video does not have the appearance of one dying due to lack of pressure.

The explanation is simply that there was air in the butane cylinder. When the gas and air mixture delivered to the stove mixed with more air in the burner the result was the unstable flame you see in the video.

Eventually during numerous attempts to light the stove the air was gradually vented off until normal operation was restored ( post # 18)

The problem could have been solved quite quickly by venting the gas cylinder for a few seconds longer.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

^^^ This. A fuels guy point to the correct answer.

It is well known that butane stoves are piss in the winter. The boiling point is 30.2F and the pressure is quite poor below about 50F.

Our kitchen hob at home in our rural location runs on butane all year round, but sometimes when temperatures drop below freezing point the gas pressure drops, so that only a low flame is produced. I usually cure this by pouring a kettle of hot water over the cylinder.
If a few days of sub-zero temperatures are expected I cover the cylinder with a few layers of tarpaulin. This usually ensures adequate flow of gas. Being near Ireland's east coast I generally don't expect to experience temperatures much below -2 to 3°C. (Learned about Fahrenheit at school, but can't remember now ). If I was living in the midlands, where temperatures are much higher in Summer and much lower in Winter I might well have to consider the use of propane in the latter season.

 

[VicS]

Our kitchen hob at home in our rural location runs on butane all year round, but sometimes when temperatures drop below freezing point the gas pressure drops, so that only a low flame is produced. I usually cure this by pouring a kettle of hot water over the cylinder.
If a few days of sub-zero temperatures are expected I cover the cylinder with a few layers of tarpaulin. This usually ensures adequate flow of gas. Being near Ireland's east coast I generally don't expect to experience temperatures much below -2 to 3°C. (Learned about Fahrenheit at school, but can't remember now ). If I was living in the midlands, where temperatures are much higher in Summer and much lower in Winter I might well have to consider the use of propane in the latter season.

To convert °C to °F; Add 40, multiply by 9 and divide by 5 , then subtract 40

To convert °F to °C; Add 40, multiply by 5 and divide by 9 , then subtract 40

Based on the fact that -40 is the same on both scales and much easier to remember than the usual formulae

 

[Boater Sam]

I would suggest that you inadvertently got liquid butane in the regulator as you fitted the bottle which could have been overfull too.

 

[Refueler]

That's because the video shows plenty of flow. If the video showed a weak flame, potentially due to lack of pressure resulting from low temperature, then contributors would be asking about that.

No it doesn't ... what you see is gas air ignition based on collecting at ring ... but as soon as gas has to supply from the pipe - it fails ... as the delivery pressure and temp is poor .....

I'm 67yrs old ... grew up with caravans ... boats ..... with gas ..... always same as soon as autumn turning to winter ....

 

[Refueler]

Give the gas cylinder a good shake to stir up the liquid gas inside and try again.

What will that do ?? LPG Gas blends are stable and do not separate

 

[Refueler]

So I disconnected the hose, shook the bottle, vented it for a few seconds, put it back, reattached the hose and when I tried it again, nothing has changed. So I let the gas open and just kept relighting the gas and then turned it down a little, that's when i noticed it sort of works on low flame now, and left it burning. It flickered less and less until it was normalized, but as soon as I turned the gas up, it would do the same but not on the lower flame any more. So I gradually opened more and more gas, each time watingin until it stabilised until I was at full flame. Now it seems to work. Beats me why. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So if anyone has the same issue in the future: You need to play with the flame, relight it over and over until it keeps the flame on the lowest heat, and then gradually give more gas and wait for it to settle. Do that until you're at full gas. (All statements without guarantee. If your boat explodes tomorrow, it's your own fault for not paying a qualified gas engineer to look at it)

Go back next day after ring etc has cooled down .... try it again.

 

[fredrussell]

No it doesn't ... what you see is gas air ignition based on collecting at ring ... but as soon as gas has to supply from the pipe - it fails ... as the delivery pressure and temp is poor .....

I'm 67yrs old ... grew up with caravans ... boats ..... with gas ..... always same as soon as autumn turning to winter ....

That effect is not caused by low temperature. it has been stated more than once that ambient temp here is unusually high - certainly enough for butane to work. What happens when butane is too cool to burn off due to low ambient temperature is that the flame just gets smaller and smaller until it goes out.
If, as OP states, the previous bottle worked fine, I would suspect new bottle is the problem. I would weigh it to see if it has been overfilled. The tare weight will be stamped on cylinder base, or on the alloy ring attached to neck of cylinder if it’s calor.

 

[Stemar]

The burner has a ring of holes that provide the flames, but if you look closely at a burner when its working properly, you'll see a ring of flame under the holes where a little gas leaks out between the top and bottom of the burner. If the tiny gap is blocked, the ring of flame can't form, and the big flames lift off like that. Give the area a good clean, removing any rust and try again.

 

[PaulRainbow]

^^^ This. A fuels guy point to the correct answer.

It is well known that butane stoves are piss in the winter. The boiling point is 30.2F and the pressure is quite poor below about 50F.

It clearly is not correct in this case.

I lived on my previous bot, on the East coast of the UK, for over 6 years and only once did i have an issue with the Butane suffering from the cold. That was on an almost empty bottle, i swapped to a new one and it worked OK.

 

[Momac]

What will that do ?? LPG Gas blends are stable and do not separate

The theory being some air or moisture is in with the gas and giving it a shake mixes it up.
But whatever the issue It worked for me with similar issues one time,

 

[michael_w]

Recently there has been a spate of problems particularly with the large 47kg cylinders. Either the stenching agent is separating out or the nitrogen that the refillers top the cylinder off with sinks to the bottom of the cylinder. According to a boiler manufacturer I discussed this problem with a month ago.

 

[penfold]

Moisture would settle to the bottom of the tank, air would settle on top of the liquid gas; shaking is what should not be done, moisture is there to stay and air can be vented along with a quantity of gas.

 

[johnalison]

We have occasionally had similar problems and the cure was to change to the reserve cylinder, presumably due to the sort of problem mentioned above.

 

[Bodach na mara]

Boater Sam in post 28 has it right. These are the symptoms of liquid gas getting into the delivery tube. These bottles are designed for vapour offtake unlike those in e.g. forklift trucks which lie horizontally for liquid offtake. Our bottles stand vertically and should only be filled to 2/3 * of their capacity. This is what worries me about all the DIY filling threads that we have seen over the last few years. It could be that the overfill prevention has failed if the bottle was filled by a bonafide supplier or it was filled by a cowboy.

* PS it may be 3/4 .

 

[Daydream believer]

Either the stenching agent is separating out or the nitrogen that the refillers top the cylinder off with sinks to the bottom of the cylinder.

Calor Gas do not "top the cylinder with a stenching agent". Or at least never did when I worked in the factory. It was one shot of liquid/gas & that was it. I cannot comment about other suppliers. Of course the system may have changed, but that would slow down the filling process. I cannot see that happening, the way they used to work, pushing the staff to produce results- Under pressure one might say