Malabar
Well-Known Member
Bear in mind that in some parts of the world officials can get really nasty if your courtesy flag is not flown superior, stbd crosstrees, or even worse, not flying at all.
Burgee Etiquette
- Thread starter ferroboat
- Start date
RestlessL
Well-Known Member
VicS
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
More information here
[/ QUOTE ] And they put the dilemma caused by flying the burgee from the crosstrees clearly:
"It is now common practice to fly the burgee at the starboard spreaders, however, no other flag may be flown above the burgee on the same halyard. You also may not fly any other flag above a national courtesy flag on the same halyard. If you fly your burgee at the starboard spreaders and are sailing in the territorial waters of another country you have a dilemma, however you choose to solve this, unless you fly your burgee at the top of the mast you will be contravening one or another element of flag etiquette."
More information here
[/ QUOTE ] And they put the dilemma caused by flying the burgee from the crosstrees clearly:
"It is now common practice to fly the burgee at the starboard spreaders, however, no other flag may be flown above the burgee on the same halyard. You also may not fly any other flag above a national courtesy flag on the same halyard. If you fly your burgee at the starboard spreaders and are sailing in the territorial waters of another country you have a dilemma, however you choose to solve this, unless you fly your burgee at the top of the mast you will be contravening one or another element of flag etiquette."
moody1
Well-Known Member
We've travelled quite a bit with our boats and never had any trouble with the sytem we devised.
Courtesy flag at top stbd halyard. Decent gap between that and RNLI flag, then original PBO Magazine flag.
Port halyard we have the Club flag then regatta or other event flag.
Masthead we leave clear to allow VHF and windex to be free to work.
We decided on this based on seeing Merchant ships with flags on cross-tree halyards and ensign at aft staff. You never see a burgee / house flag or other at masthead of any ship.
Courtesy flag at top stbd halyard. Decent gap between that and RNLI flag, then original PBO Magazine flag.
Port halyard we have the Club flag then regatta or other event flag.
Masthead we leave clear to allow VHF and windex to be free to work.
We decided on this based on seeing Merchant ships with flags on cross-tree halyards and ensign at aft staff. You never see a burgee / house flag or other at masthead of any ship.
Athene V30
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
You never see a burgee / house flag or other at masthead of any ship.
[/ QUOTE ]
All RN warships have a commissioning pennant at top of main mast. Narrow white pennant with elongated red +
You never see a burgee / house flag or other at masthead of any ship.
[/ QUOTE ]
All RN warships have a commissioning pennant at top of main mast. Narrow white pennant with elongated red +
MarkGrubb
Well-Known Member
I confess I'm quite ignorant of some of these issues. In the past I only chartered boats with friends and wasn't to concerned about flag etiquette, though I did make sure the ensign was out.
But now I'm in my second year of boat ownership, a member of the owners association, and considering applying to join a sailing club that friends are a member of. I want to make more of an effort to have the right flags in the right places.
There's been talk of Burgees and House flags. But what is a Burgee and house flag, other than being the name of a flag. Why are they different, what do they represent: i.e. why is a burgee called a burgee and not a house flag or vica versa, and why is it important to have different names and not simply call them all burgees or house flags.
My best guess is that the burgee is the name of where the flag is flown (or worn if you prefer). i.e. the burgee is the point at the top of the mast. And flags traditionally flown from here have adopted the name burgee. Is that correct? Or is the flag itself called a burgee, and if so who decided whether a flag is a burgee or a houseflag and if I'm given a flag to fly how do I know if its a burgee or a house flag.
It's all very confusing at first. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Thanks,
Mark.
But now I'm in my second year of boat ownership, a member of the owners association, and considering applying to join a sailing club that friends are a member of. I want to make more of an effort to have the right flags in the right places.
There's been talk of Burgees and House flags. But what is a Burgee and house flag, other than being the name of a flag. Why are they different, what do they represent: i.e. why is a burgee called a burgee and not a house flag or vica versa, and why is it important to have different names and not simply call them all burgees or house flags.
My best guess is that the burgee is the name of where the flag is flown (or worn if you prefer). i.e. the burgee is the point at the top of the mast. And flags traditionally flown from here have adopted the name burgee. Is that correct? Or is the flag itself called a burgee, and if so who decided whether a flag is a burgee or a houseflag and if I'm given a flag to fly how do I know if its a burgee or a house flag.
It's all very confusing at first. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Thanks,
Mark.
VicS
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
But what is a Burgee and house flag
[/ QUOTE ] The distinction i would make, but others may have a strict definition, is that burgees are triangular, house flags are rectangular. (In GB at least)
As for Moody1's comment about never seeing burgees or house flags at the masthead of merchant ships maybe that's because they don't belong to yacht clubs So no burgee to fly but they do very often fly house flags from the yardarm (starboard side I think) in port.
But what is a Burgee and house flag
[/ QUOTE ] The distinction i would make, but others may have a strict definition, is that burgees are triangular, house flags are rectangular. (In GB at least)
As for Moody1's comment about never seeing burgees or house flags at the masthead of merchant ships maybe that's because they don't belong to yacht clubs So no burgee to fly but they do very often fly house flags from the yardarm (starboard side I think) in port.
jenku
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
All RN warships have a commissioning pennant at top of main mast. Narrow white pennant with elongated red +
[/ QUOTE ]
I have, of course, read about this a lot in all the Hornblower type novels, but is it still used today? I just surfed around some on the shipsspotting website and found quite a few pics of RN warships, some under way, some in harbour but there are no pennants! There is nothing up the mast at all (in way of flags or pennants).
For example:
Really nothing (the pics are available in highres so I zoomed in...)
All RN warships have a commissioning pennant at top of main mast. Narrow white pennant with elongated red +
[/ QUOTE ]
I have, of course, read about this a lot in all the Hornblower type novels, but is it still used today? I just surfed around some on the shipsspotting website and found quite a few pics of RN warships, some under way, some in harbour but there are no pennants! There is nothing up the mast at all (in way of flags or pennants).
For example:
Really nothing (the pics are available in highres so I zoomed in...)
cliffordpope
Well-Known Member
In my old book Motor Cruising, dating from about 1930, a house flag is defined as the personal flag of the owner, a burgee the flag of the club he belongs to.
Both can be any shape the club or owner likes. Didn't Missee Lee have a long snaking penant with a dragon on it?
Both can be any shape the club or owner likes. Didn't Missee Lee have a long snaking penant with a dragon on it?
KINGFISHER 9
Well-Known Member
I'm with you Searush ... whatever happened to standards? I always thought it was normal behaviour but being polite seems to have gone out the window these days ... doesn't seem to matter where .... coming alongside the pontoon, saying hello to the guy on the next boat or even passing someone on the pontoon and saying good morning ... nobody seems to bother any more ... isn't it sad? Maybe a new motto for this great country of ours should be 'Why Bother'.
Emjaytoo
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
The distinction i would make, but others may have a strict definition, is that burgees are triangular, house flags are rectangular. (In GB at least)
[/ QUOTE ]
I seem to remember from my dinghy sailing days, that a burgee was the little counterbalanced flag at the top of the mast used to indicate the wind direction. I was told that a square one was used to indicate you were racing and a triangular one indicated you were just "cruising".
The distinction i would make, but others may have a strict definition, is that burgees are triangular, house flags are rectangular. (In GB at least)
[/ QUOTE ]
I seem to remember from my dinghy sailing days, that a burgee was the little counterbalanced flag at the top of the mast used to indicate the wind direction. I was told that a square one was used to indicate you were racing and a triangular one indicated you were just "cruising".
Emjaytoo
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
nobody seems to bother any more ... isn't it sad? Maybe a new motto for this great country of ours should be 'Why Bother'.
[/ QUOTE ]
Which is one of the reasons we keep our boat in the Netherlands. Everyone is so friendly. We sail a mass produced AWB and people wave to us irrespective of what they sail - expensive Swedish boat, traditional wooden Dutch boat, exotic looking cruiser/racer. If anything, all the waving can get a bit tiresom!
nobody seems to bother any more ... isn't it sad? Maybe a new motto for this great country of ours should be 'Why Bother'.
[/ QUOTE ]
Which is one of the reasons we keep our boat in the Netherlands. Everyone is so friendly. We sail a mass produced AWB and people wave to us irrespective of what they sail - expensive Swedish boat, traditional wooden Dutch boat, exotic looking cruiser/racer. If anything, all the waving can get a bit tiresom!
lw395
Well-Known Member
So the only technically correct answer is to have more than one flag halyard on the stbd cross tree? Although I generally have to improvise with the kite halyards anyway!
I must confess to flying the club burgee under the ensign on the backstay. I hate those flag staffs that stick out from the pushpit, particularly when they obscure the helmsmans view or the sternlight!
BTW, is there a good online list of two letter flag codes? and are they interantional or just HM Navy?
I must confess to flying the club burgee under the ensign on the backstay. I hate those flag staffs that stick out from the pushpit, particularly when they obscure the helmsmans view or the sternlight!
BTW, is there a good online list of two letter flag codes? and are they interantional or just HM Navy?
VicS
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
correct answer is to have more than one flag halyard on the stbd cross tree
[/ QUOTE ] Ah but, yes, no. They have different seniority in the scheme of things so it still does not solve the problem of burgee vs courtesy ensign!
[ QUOTE ]
is there a good online list of two letter flag codes
[/ QUOTE ] Probably but there is a list in the RYA booklet C4 which I recommended earlier. Also Reeds?
correct answer is to have more than one flag halyard on the stbd cross tree
[/ QUOTE ] Ah but, yes, no. They have different seniority in the scheme of things so it still does not solve the problem of burgee vs courtesy ensign!
[ QUOTE ]
is there a good online list of two letter flag codes
[/ QUOTE ] Probably but there is a list in the RYA booklet C4 which I recommended earlier. Also Reeds?
dedwards
Well-Known Member
What if your club's commodore is on your boat? do you replace your burgee with his flag or fly it above your own?
RestlessL
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
All RN warships have a commissioning pennant at top of main mast. Narrow white pennant with elongated red +
[/ QUOTE ]
I have, of course, read about this a lot in all the Hornblower type novels, but is it still used today? I just surfed around some on the shipsspotting website and found quite a few pics of RN warships, some under way, some in harbour but there are no pennants! There is nothing up the mast at all (in way of flags or pennants).
[/ QUOTE ]
I had a quick look on my way out of the Naval Base this evening. Ark Royal, Cattistock and Quorn were all flying commisioning pennants.
John
[ QUOTE ]
All RN warships have a commissioning pennant at top of main mast. Narrow white pennant with elongated red +
[/ QUOTE ]
I have, of course, read about this a lot in all the Hornblower type novels, but is it still used today? I just surfed around some on the shipsspotting website and found quite a few pics of RN warships, some under way, some in harbour but there are no pennants! There is nothing up the mast at all (in way of flags or pennants).
[/ QUOTE ]
I had a quick look on my way out of the Naval Base this evening. Ark Royal, Cattistock and Quorn were all flying commisioning pennants.
John
RestlessL
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
What if your club's commodore is on your boat? do you replace your burgee with his flag or fly it above your own?
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you do exactly what the Club Commodore tells you to do /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
What if your club's commodore is on your boat? do you replace your burgee with his flag or fly it above your own?
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you do exactly what the Club Commodore tells you to do /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
ferroboat
Well-Known Member
I would like to thank everyone for their most interesting contributions to my post (lots of interesting reading and links) and by the by I do have a warrant to wear a defaced ensign.
No Regrets
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I would like to thank everyone for their most interesting contributions to my post (lots of interesting reading and links) and by the by I do have a warrant to wear a defaced ensign.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry.....really /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif had to do it /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
I would like to thank everyone for their most interesting contributions to my post (lots of interesting reading and links) and by the by I do have a warrant to wear a defaced ensign.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry.....really /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif had to do it /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
