Burgee Etiquette

You can put it where you like, but my understanding is that it SHOULD be at the mainmast head. Failing that, at the starboard spreader if you are not flying a courtesy flag. Problem comes if you want to fly a courtesy flag then that should be at the starboard spreader & the burgee gets demoted.

In general, this is not a problem, but if you have an Admiralty warrant for a special ensign, then the club burgee has to be in the senior position; which is at the masthead. Or so I have been told! I put mine on a garden cane to get it clear of the windex, lights & aerial. Searush is a ketch too.
 
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Quite why skippers lose sleep over these matters completely escapes me.

Bullshice and bollox come to mind.

Who the Hell cares?

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No-one, really. And no-one is stressing here, so why should you be so upset by it? Or do you also see odd socks as "a good thing"?

Etiquette is exactly what it says, being polite, trying to do things in the accepted way. Not essential, just good manners. Or do you also disapprove of saying "please" & "thank you"?

Perhaps you just can't find anything more important to whinge about? Not trying to score points, just wondering quite what brought about that little outburst. Do try to be a little more tolerant of others please.

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etiquette . n. the code of polite behaviour in a society

polite .adj respectful and considerate towards others; courteous

Whilst not actually loosing sleep, it would appear there are still some around who understand the above. As are some who don't.

Hope this helps. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
I am all for tradition. I still can't understand those skippers who do not run their ensign down at sunset. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
The RYA booklet C4 on Flag Etiquette and Visual Signals is an interesting useful and inexpensive guide to flag etiquette and a handy source of reference to flag signals. See here

There is no suggestion in that booklet that the mizzen mast of a ketch or yawl should or could be used as the alternative position for the burgee although it is one of the alternatives for the Ensign. As Searush says the accepted alternative for the burgee is the starboard cross-tree but that brings it into conflict with a courtesy ensign. Reading the booklet it seems to infer that a courtesy ensign would be hoisted below it but I know others will not agree.

Logically though it would seem that the mizzen mast would be an alternative to the main mast head, being inferior to the flag staff in the stern but superior to the starboard cross tree. thus preserving the order of superiority of the flags. Namely Ensign, burgee then courtesy Ensign.
 
My understanding is that you should only fly one burgee at any time and that is of the local club to which you belong or whos function you are attending. So this is at the masthead or stbd crosstree if masthead full of electronics. If flying a courtey ensign then I think the burgee should go to Port.

Mizzen mast is an appropriate place for the ensign but I cannot say I have ever seen a burgee there?

I know when I go abroad next week the RNSA burgee will be at the masthead and undefaced blue at the stern, courtesy ensign at stbd crosstree and Forum burgee (not a 'Club') at port.

I like tradition and am quite happy to follow etiquette.
 
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Can I fly 2 clubs Burgees ???? My sailing clubs and my class association

[/ QUOTE ] Strictly i think you should only fly one burgee and if you are entitled to wear a Blue Ensign etc that must be the burgee of the club that entitles you to wear that ensign.

Probably the best solution would be for class or owners associations etc to have house flags and for them to be hoisted to the port cross-tree, but they usually seem to have burgees. I am not now a member of a club but when I was I flew both burgees from the starboard cross-tree with RYA and RNLI house flags from the port cross-tree. Nobody ever objected!
 
Thanks for the link, Vic. You are, as usual, absolutely right; except where an Admiralty warrant is issued for a special ensign.
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In that case, I am told, the club burgee HAS to be the senior flag. Now if flying a courtesy Ensign in foreign waters this may get you into trouble as many countries REQUIRE their courtsey Ensign to be top of the hoist, moving it below the burgee is an insult to their country and may not be taken lightly. That is why I was advised to wear the burgee at the masthead.

The conventions vary from country to country and it is difficult (impossible?) to know them all. Most people don't give a damn, but it is another traditon ridden aspect of our amazing hobby that you can investigate or ignore as you wish. I find it an interesting link to history, but have a lot to learn, sadly, as usual!
 
My information is that you may fly multiple burgees (provided you are a paid up member of the relevant clubs!) from the spreaders, below the courtesy Ensign and that they should be in order of seniority. That is burgee of oldest club highest up hoist. But always, Burgee of warranted club associated with warranted Ensign to be at main mast head.

Please note, this is a sharing of information, not an argument! I make no claims of any knowledge on this matter, I'm just passing on what was explained to me by someone I think knew what they were talking about! These are the conventions I choose to follow - others may well interpret the info differently.
 
You know where that comes from though? The RN was too tight duing the Napoleonic wars to pay for the extra bunting and decreed that flags should come down during the hours of darkness. You may either choose to be a tightwad or follow the older tradition of leaving it up! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif


I bring mine in. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Well you know what points mean?................





Not on this forum! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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'Not trying to score points,'

Points scoring is something I'm ignorant of. Obviously I have zero points. Please educate me how I should earn points.

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Oh, dear. We are out of sorts aren't we? I'm sure you're fully aware of the art of put-downs & being argumentative for the sake of it. It is very common on fora, and boringly practised by those with little to add to a discussion. It is tantamount to Trolling with insults to get an enraged reaction.

I trust that is helpful. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
The question has greater implications about tradition. My yacht club seems like many to follow navy traditions in terms of uniform names of elected management and flags/ burgees.

I have no connection or interest in the navy. I enjoy my club and am quietly proud of it but I don't see why we should pretend it is a branch of the armed services. I would much rather see it as it really is just another club similar in role and structure to the local tennis club or bowling club. (especially the rule about not wearing a hat in the bar)

I am grateful that in this modern age a military is not a major part of our culture. A culture of peace is something to be more proud of. I am not saying we don't need a military and I am not belittling the work that our military people do. I just feel that they should be kept out of sight as a necessary evil. Unlike all of those 3rd world corrupt governments who glorify their military not seeing it the way the outside world see it, as their way to oppress their own people.

So for flag etiquette to me it is only necessary to keep the sensitive or touchy happy. I prefer to be pragmatic. olewill
 
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