Bukh DV20 starter motor not working. Any suggestions?

[joyfull]

Engineer just been. Starter turning so he thinks sticky solenoid. He did not have tools so left it up to me to remove.

I have removed alternator to get access.

Two 19mm bolts removed. Which seems all there is holding to the engine. Brushed all around with diesel but wont budge. Are there any other bolts or is it just stuck and rusted and will need more persuading?

 

[James_Calvert]

No more bolts. Should move backwards out of the circular ring it was bolted to.

Try grabbing it as far away as you can reach and rock it up and down.

 

[Boater Sam]

Engineer just been. Starter turning so he thinks sticky solenoid. He did not have tools so left it up to me to remove.

/QUOTE]


Odd sort of engineer with no tools yet you have that he could of borrowed.

 

[joyfull]

Yes. He said he would leave me to pull it out and suggested local starter motor man to strip it down.

More diesel and gentle tap and its free!

 

[joyfull]

Starter motor rebuilt and refitted. Then the engine was still not turning over. So a wasted effort, though the bearings were lousy so now have a nice rebuilt starter motor.

I guess it was just the key or switch panel or wiring fault.

I have set up a hot wire system with direct power from the battery to the solenoid.....and engine now turning over fine. Typical!

Trouble is it won't fire.

Does that mean just a fuel supply problem to the cylinders? (I guess it could be the electronic stop solenoid- though it was working ok before and there is a clicking sound when I turn the key left).

It has been standing six months with fuel supply left open/on. There is fuel in the filter.

The rest of the fuel supply, pump, injectors etc. untouched and were all ok last year. All very old and rusty so reluctant to disturb.

Any ideas on where to start first to track down the problem?

 

[srm]

Any ideas on where to start first to track down the problem?

Try changing the filters as they may be gummed up (good practice to change annually anyway). If the fuel looks clean bleed the system and and try again. If fuel is doubtful check and clean tank and fuel line.
Incidentally, I have run my engine with EU white diesel from a road filling station (plus anti bug additive) that had been standing in the tank for 5 years.

 

[joyfull]

I am changing the fuel filter first.

It is well above the tank and the engine so once I have put in the new filter how do I fill up the bowl?

Is it a matter of pumping through with the lever. Seems a fair amount of pumping involved or is there a way of priming it?

Once the filter bowl is full is it necessary to bleed the system down the line to the pump?

Also if I have to change the pump diaphragm will I need to bleed all the way to the injectors? (I ask as they have not been disturbed for some years by the look of them. Any work on them might release bits of rust or debris into the injectors).

 

[Mistroma]

It's been about 12 years since I last worked on the DV20 I owned for about 24 years. I remember bleeding via the lever on the fuel pump until fuel came through the bleed point on the filter. One important point is to rotate the flywheel slowly when operating the lever until you feel it working properly. The lever will hardly move if the engine stops with the cam pushing the pump diaphragm fully up. Turning the engine slightly will move the cam downwards and increase available diaphragm movement achieved with a stroke of the lever.

I'm a bit fuzzy about the next bit and think I used to loosen the connection to t HP pump and then spin the engine until fuel bubbled out before tightening it again. I just tied the decompression levers back when spinning the engine. I do not remember needing to bleed the injector connections very often. I do remember that it was a pain to get rid of the odd drip after bleeding them but I'd eventually get a good seal.

My tank was about level with the pump but I had a water trap and then a CAV filter fitted level with the top of the tank. A CAV filter change involved pumping fuel up from the tank and took a fair bit of pumping with the lever. The finer engine filter wasn't that bad for me as the CAV and bowl were already filled with fuel.

I think that the service manual will probably have a section on bleeding the fuel system. I can probably dig out a copy I have and upload it to my website with a link here if it would help. It is a very detailed PDF and has at least 300 pages.

 

[joyfull]

I am only at the first fuel filter between the tank and the engine at the moment. Hopefully I will get the filter tomorrow and fit it. Then try and get fuel up into the filter reservoir (it is way above the tank and the engine).

It looks like there is a second fuel filter on the back of the engine near the lift pump. Not very accessible at all. I guess I will look at that next if the engine won't start.

 

[Mistroma]

I am only at the first fuel filter between the tank and the engine at the moment. Hopefully I will get the filter tomorrow and fit it. Then try and get fuel up into the filter reservoir (it is way above the tank and the engine).

It looks like there is a second fuel filter on the back of the engine near the lift pump. Not very accessible at all. I guess I will look at that next if the engine won't start.

Sounds similar to my previous boat, a water trap and then a CAV filter sited level with the top of the tank. It took a bit of pumping with the lever but not too bad as lng as the engine was rotated to give the lever full travel. I don't think I bothered to bleed anything else when changing the first filter and trap, just the bleed on the engine mounted filter.

 

[joyfull]

Should I change the engine mounted filter?

I doubt it has been serviced for many years.

Is it a standard motoring filter or is it a specialist Bukh part?

 

[Charlie Boy]

If you know it hasn’t been serviced for a long while then yes, replace all the filters. Bukh charge like wounded rhino so here’s a useful link; Bukh Engine Spares and Replacement Parts
To bleed the system use the small lever on the base of the lift pump. Sometimes it won’t ‘bite’ so then turn the flywheel a bit until the pump works. Once the filter is ‘full’ you’ll hear fuel dropping back into the tank through the return pipe.
Next, take a spanner and have it ready on one injector. Turn the engine over with the starter while you crack open the injector. This will let air out until diesel fills the space, you’ll see fuel leaking around it, tighten the injector immediately and repeat for the other one.
If it won’t at least make starting type noises then you have other issues.

 

[Mistroma]

Should I change the engine mounted filter?

I doubt it has been serviced for many years.

Is it a standard motoring filter or is it a specialist Bukh part?

I used to change the CAV annually and the engine mounted one every 2nd year.

I just used to buy one from Halfords, HOF200 as far as I remember. I seem to remember reading that it was the same as a Ford Escort at the time and saved a list of alternatives. Just remembered that Halfords, HOF200 is an oil filter

That means these are also equivalents for oil filters in case you need one:

Ford AP1011​

Halfords HOF200​

Champion C104​

Fram PH966B​

I'll see if I still have a similar list for fuel filters. I have the official BUKH parts list to go with the 324 page service manual (it is even larger at 356 pages). BUKH part is 610 D 0201 but will be 3-4 times equivalent car version.

 

[Mistroma]

If you know it hasn’t been serviced for a long while then yes, replace all the filters. Bukh charge like wounded rhino so here’s a useful link; Bukh Engine Spares and Replacement Parts
To bleed the system use the small lever on the base of the lift pump. Sometimes it won’t ‘bite’ so then turn the flywheel a bit until the pump works. Once the filter is ‘full’ you’ll hear fuel dropping back into the tank through the return pipe.
Next, take a spanner and have it ready on one injector. Turn the engine over with the starter while you crack open the injector. This will let air out until diesel fills the space, you’ll see fuel leaking around it, tighten the injector immediately and repeat for the other one.
If it won’t at least make starting type noises then you have other issues.

I was going to suggest ASAP as well, good link. I see you agree with my post #48 about turning the flywheel, it makes a huge difference . It was the first thing I thought about mentioning to save hours of uselessly pressing a lever and not achieving much. It really works quite well as long as the cam isn't preventing the lever actually pumping.

 

[srm]

It looks like there is a second fuel filter on the back of the engine near the lift pump. Not very accessible at all. I guess I will look at that next if the engine won't start.

Just a gentle word of caution:
When I bought my previous boat I made a 600 mile delivery trip with much use of the engine (Yanmar). Once home I decided it would be a good idea to change the filters. Had put it off at the start as, like yours, CAV filter was well above the tank top. The small engine mounted filter was full of water with just a film of fuel flowing over the top that kept the engine running. A few more hours and a bit of water could have seen very expensive injector pump repairs.

Putting as much clean fuel as possible in the new filters when assembling can reduce the amount of hand pumping to bleed the system, but is messy with CAV filters. I changed mine to spin on filters.
My current boat also has a low level fuel tank. The previous owner fitted a small header tank that takes the return fuel from the injectors and overflows in to the main tank. Fuel line can be switched to the header tank giving a gravity feed of filtered fuel for bleeding filters etc. and saves a lot of hassle.

 

[joyfull]

Still major struggle getting fuel around the system. The tank is lower than the engine. There is a small in line filter of some kind with a metal bowl. Then the feed to a glass bowl filter above the engine (the one I changed the rusty filter). As it all comes apart in bits I cant refill. Then the fuel line goes to the lift pump, then to a larger metal bowl fuel filter on the engine then to the injectors from what I can see (access on a Centaur is hopeless).
I can get fuel around with the lift pump as the lever seems inoperable (light action even when gradually turned the flywheel all the way around). So I have tried my Pela pump at various stages in the pipes with no affect. Nothing coming into the empty glass bowl. At the top of the glass bowl filter there is a long central bolt which goes straight through the middle to secure the whole assembly, then a larger short bolt offset that just screws out. Is it possible to top fill the filter through this? Otherwise what is its function?

 

[DownWest]

If you have a bit of flex pipe before the filters (or can fit some) putting in a bulb pump, similar to the one in an outboard motor remote fuel line, will make bleeding MUCH easier.
Since you have a Pela, suck some fuel out of the bottom of the tank to see how claggy it is.

 

[Mistroma]

Odd that the pump isn't working at all. You should feel very slight resistance over a long stroke when the cam is in the correct position. It is obvious when fuel arrives at the pump and you will feel the change in resistance. You mention turning the flywheel and I assume you will have noticed the change in stroke length when the cam lobe moves away from the pump. I seems likely that you are doing this part correctly.

Have you checked the pump? It's pretty easy to remove the top section by undoing all the screws. I think you just push down on the diaphragm, give it a half turn and lift clear. It could be a blocked filter mesh (unlikely), a damaged diaphragm or problem with the valves.

The pump should be able to lift the fuel up a couple of feet unless:

1. Pipe or filter blockage
2. Air leak in pipework
3. Pump filter blocked
4. Pump valves not working
5. Pump diaphragm punctured
6. Insufficient pump stroke

I can't think of other likely possibly things to check and OP has probably covered most already. I think a quick check on the pump would be in order.

 

[joyfull]

Is it possible to at least fill the glass bowl filter via the offset bolt on the left?

 

[Mistroma]

Is it possible to at least fill the glass bowl filter via the offset bolt on the left?View attachment 114244

It's been more than 10 years since I last worked on my old BUKH DV20 with a CAV filter. However, that looks like the bleed screw and you should be able to squirt fuel in using a large syringe. I think some CAV housings didn't have a bleed screw, just blanking plugs. Easy to tell by unscrewing the setscrew and putting a fine wire into the hole.

It's also easy to fill the engine mounted filter with clean fuel when changing the element. That should allow you to prime the lift pump very quickly and let you know it is working without dismantling it. I would still advise a quick check on the pump diaphragm and valves if this doesn't help.