Building a wooden boat - Anyone on here with experience?

[JerseyDevil]

Hi,

We're thinking of building a boat in the next 6 months and were wondering if anyone on here had experience or advice in the process? It'll be the first time we've built a boat, however we have experience of woodwork and building small aircraft (RC variety) which seems to be a similar process on a smaller scale.

We've looked at several designers online including Selway and John Welsford (we're potentially edging towards a Swaggie), are there others out there or designs that are recommended?

As for building materials ( we're looking at either the "stitch and tape" or plywood over frame designs as these seem to be the most suitable for a beginner.) I know that we'd be using plywood for the exterior (I assume marine plywood as it's a boat? Or is it more money for nothing?) and something such as cedar for the form / interior ? Again it's a new thing for us, so advice on materials etc would also be a help (I doubt balsa wood we use for planes would cope well )

Thanks in advance

 

[sarabande]

try

www. woodenboat.com/forum

or typing "building wooden boat" into Youtube - there are lots of instructional and time lapse sequences.

At least they will show you that it can be done using traditional methods. Albeit slowly.

best of luck.

 

[penfold]

Marine ply is essential for longevity; building a boat of anything else is chucking effort and money down a drain. BS1088 as a minimum, but a high grade marine ply is easier to work, looks better varnished and is more durable; Bruynzeel is the best but you'd know that when you look at the price, any that is made entirely of mahogany or other durable hardwood is ideal. The vendor I'm familiar with is Robbins Timber, but there are cheaper out there. Balsa could be used if you want to build a very light boat(endgrain balsa epoxied between thin ply skins makes for a very light, stiff and strong panel)!.

 

[DownWest]

I will second the wooden boat forum, a vast amount of knowledge. Quite a lot of people there frown on ply construction, just ignore them. Get onto Amazon and buy Iain Oughtred's 'Clinker Plywood boatbuilding Manual' Aimed at his designs, but usefull for others. Also read up on epoxy resins. You don't say if sail or power? Might be an idea to build something small to practise, cheaper mistakes! The PBO Pup looks like a good start. I am personally not a fan of stitch and glue, but it does reduce the building time. A good mag to read is Watercraft (sorry YBW) as it is aimed at people like you with lots of pics of inspiring projects. On plywood, Marine is usually worth the money, but carefull selection of none marine but waterproof ply can be miles cheaper, esp if protected with epoxy. The editor of WC is building a 19ft Bolger Chebacca using birch ply. Not considered durable, but then neither is the occume I used for my IO design. The birch ply is around half the price of top marine.
Andrew

 

[dur]

The design you choose has to catch your imagination but don't go too ambitious for your first attempt - there is a lot to do in even the most modest of dinghies.
I agree that Robbins are a good place to start for the ply. You can by "marine" ply from the timber merchant but it won't necessarily be what you want and might be more expensive. A weekend course at somewhere like the Lyme Regis boat building skool is both great fun and worthwhile even if you have a reasonable background before you start.

Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[DownWest]

Just had another look at Swaggie. Quite a project for a first build and the double skin might be a bit tricky to get right. Also you might think of what you will use it for. Swaggie is for long distance ocean work on a minimal scale. Is that your goal? From JW's board I rather like his Penguin as a family cruiser and it just lost out to Dix's Cape Henry 21 as my current build.
A

Dur, my first little ply build was called Piglet. 6ft sailing pram, took me a week when I was 11.

 

[DownWest]

More designs here www.francois.vivier.info/
A

 

[bluemoongaffer]

My advice would be to stick with a design which:

a) You like the look of - it's no fun building a boat which isn't pleasing on the eye.

b) A boat which has been built by (quite a few) others - the standard of plans and support varies considerably.

As well as the designers listed, try Iain Oughtred and Roger Dongray (designer of my boat) - both have a loyal following.

Cheers
Paul

 

[[32511]]

Avoid exterior ply. I used some alleged WBP ply for a couple of hatch covers, which de-laminated in six months! There is some rubbish around with BS stamps on; must be faked.

 

[Bobobolinsky]

There certainly is, we found one timber merchant who had his own BS stamp. WBP ply varies hugely in quality as well. From "Wickes" threeply up.
I have found that some timber merchants are the very worst of people to purchase from. One company which will remain nameless sold me a sheet of ply, as they almost all seem to do, you pays at the desk for one sheet of ply and take chittie to yard boy who fobs you off with the worst piece of ply in the yard. I've had to go through a pack of ply to find a sheet that was acceptable, one place was upset that I went back and told them there was no material suitable.
"Rant off"
On the upside, I have now had firsthand experience of how wasteful the southern half of this country is. I could just go to the skip and pick up marineply, or the waste from the local hardwood window manufacturer and turn it into perfectly acceptable parts. 25mmT x 250mm Wx 1000mmL was common in the skip.

 

[JerseyDevil]

Thank you for all the replies, and reading that woodenboat forum got me in trouble with the girlfriend when I crawled into bed at 0400 this morning

As for our needs, short term (once completed) we'll be sailing the South Coast and long term (after a years experience with the boat) we'll be looking at trips across the channel (Hamble to Saint Malo, Caen etc) and then continuing through the canal system in France and possibly onto the Med. For this reason we thought the Swaggie would be quite suited to our needs as it's small, bluewater capable and also has a shallow draft which should be ok in the French canals. So basically we need something capable of crossing the English Channel and navigating the canals of France, any alternative suggestions to a Swaggie? There'd only be two of us, so the boat does not have to be enormous but also we do not want it to be too small so 18foot is the minimum we'd want and the Swaggie seems quite "big" for her size.

Others we had looked at were the Vagabond 20 (From Bateau2.com ) and the Pioneer Dory / Sharpie 21.

If you have other suggestions for plans or methods of construction, we'd be happy to hear them,

 

[Tranona]

Building a boat of this size and complexity, particularly as a first project is a major undertaking. You have to really like BOATBUILDING rather than sailing as that is what you will be doing for several years unless you devote yourself full time to the project. You will also find it costs much more than you ever anticipated.

You will see that most boats designed for home building are dinghies and small day boats up to about 16ft. This is because such a project is manageable, and perhaps more importantly because there are very few such boats available ready built, because they are uneconomic. On the other hand the market is overflowing with 20-25ft small yachts available for less than the price of materials to build a new one.

I grew up in the days when DIY boatbuilding was common, and built several clinker ply dinghies, a 14ft Ply day boat with cuddy and a 19ft Sadler Sea Wych from a kit. In those days there simply was not the choice of ready built SH boats and new builds were way too expensive. That is not the case now. Building a new wooden boat now is a luxury pastime. I have plans for a 31ft Riptide - larger version of the Eventide 26 I have owned for 30 years. Would love to build it, but the materials alone would cost more than the modern Bavaria 37 I also have cost new - never mind the 5 years and space required to build it!

Sorry if it sounds negative, but I have seen far too many unfinished projects over the years where people completely underestimate the cost, time and effort required.

 

[TQA]

There is an unkind saying which goes like this

" Fools build boats for wise men to sail "

Only build a boat if you will really enjoy the boat building bit. Boats are cheap just now and if you want to go sailing buy don't build.

And as for building a Swaggie in 6 months - well maybe if both of you work full time at it and you have the power tools needed.

 

[DownWest]

Tranona's quite right. If sailing is the goal, buy an old Hurley and get to it. If building is important to you, then do something quite small to see if you really like it. Then build your cruiser, your viewpoint might change considerably.
The dorys you quote are fast builds, but you might also look at Benford's sailing dorys. Annie and Pete Hill cruised the world on their homebuilt one. At 34ft, a big build, but there are much smaller ones, that could still accommodate two.
Build times on sites are usually a bit optimistic. My 15ft glued clinker estimated 200hrs for the hull. The whole boat including sails, fittings and trailer, took about 8 months of spare time. Costwise, I saved huge amounts of money by doing everything myself. This depends on how much time you have spare. If you value your relationship, get the G/F on board and involved. Plenty of divorces involve boatbuilding.
One guy built my 21ft design in about a year, another needed 5. Both had normal day jobs, but the first had built a couple of small (manned) aircraft, so had more project organisation experience.And he used a kit. ( www.jordanboats.co.uk ) these might look a bit like some of your model a/c stuff!
A

 

[JerseyDevil]

Thanks again for the further advice, I can see what you all mean by it been a bit of a big project for a first build. "Luckily" (in a way....) I work from home so have a lot of free time I can spend on construction during the day whilst my partner is working, and also her dad is a craftsman with a lot of experience with wood so it should help to reduce the stress.

I think we'll take your advice on board though and perhaps start with a Pup (PBO) and if it goes well perhaps then progress onto something we could sail a distance

To be honest, building the boat does not worry me too much and I'd enjoy doing it, I've been building cars for several years (including rebuilds) so I want to work with something a bit less "oily"

 

[DownWest]

I think you answered my next question. Where. If you have to get in the car and drive to rented space, the build time is doubled. I live on an old farm and have sufficient sheds etc. for the various workshops. So a few spare minutes can be translated into something useful. And when dinner is ready (and I am not duty cook) a quick shout and scrub helps the marital bliss.
Re the WBF, they have a tradition of flat bottomed boats over there, not so in UK. The hull is only a part of the build, so might be better to choose something more acceptable in UK for eventual resale. Having said that, google 'Norwalk Island Sharpies', they come in 18 & 23ft ( and bigger).Read the Oz site, esp the bit about dealing with 50kt winds in the Bass Strait.
A

An alternative to the Pup is the Nutshell from WB. Build the longer one, not much more work and sails better. Friend built a couple, not difficult and look nice.

 

[Amulet]

Building a boat is an enriching experience, and I'd encourage anyone to do it, but do lots of investigation first, both to ensure that you build the right boat and that you are realisitic about what you are getting in to.

The main suggestion I'd make is to go and sail boats like the one you want. If you can find anyone else building one go and have a look at the process.

I was surprised by:

... in the next 6 months...

...edging towards a Swaggie...

I'd guess that, unless you don't have a day-job, and are very adept, it's more than a six month project, but maybe someone will correct me.

and were wondering if anyone on here had experience or advice in the process?

I myself have only ever built small stitch and glue dinghies, but my boat, Amulet, was designed and built by my father over 3 and a half years. [See "The Amulet Story".]


There are numerous books on boatbuilding, some of which you should read before you take a final decision about the method, materials and design. A search of BookHarbour.com will take you to your first fifty or so. When you have worked out what boat you are going to build then you will almost certainly want to read in depth about it.

As far as materials are concerned - the amount of work you put into this is going to overshadow material costs, so within reasonable bounds, it's not worth scrimping by using inferior products.

 

[DownWest]

Amulet,
I think the six month bit was when they might start, rather than how long to build.
The original Swaggie was for Charley Wipple. Unfortunately, when he set out across the Pacific, the diesel tank developed a seep and he decided to turn back and fix it. Smelt a bit. Due to a navigational error, he put it on to a lee shore while asleep and was a total loss. He was fine, picked up from the rocks after a shortish wait. It is a very strong construction for its length, hence my doubts about the suitability for this case.
A

 

[JerseyDevil]

For building space I fortunately have access to a double garage plus same space outside undercover Again it was a god send for working on the cars! (Typically I had space for 2 project cars plus my daily driver in there)

Oh and yes, the 6 months was for the start date rather than a completion date, I know from the aforementioned cars that it's best never to give an estimated time to completion But again I work from home so can put a fair bit of work in on my projects when my partner is working so it won't impact on our "together" time.


DownWest: Who is "WB" ? I guess that even if I do not build a larger boat, a small dinghy will be useful as a tender and still a valuable experience


P.S Thanks for the link to Amulet, she is a lovely looking boat, nice to see that you managed to get her back after selling her too

 

[DownWest]

Sorry, WB is Wooden Boat Magazine. On their website is a list of stock plans, the Nutshell is by Joel White ( I think)
Dinner ready, must scrub...........
A