Building a 12" Naval Gun

I was told by an ex-navy SC member that an American warship managed to sink a Japanese vessel at the end of the war at a range of 30,000yds but I can find no mention of this. Most sources seems to suggest that the longest hit from a naval vessel is a tie between the Scharnhorst and Warspite at 26,000ish yards, which is impressive enough.
 
Thank you capnsensible, I always enjoy your posts as well, always full of common sense, bringing posters down to earth!

Scotty 123 - No, what you see on the website is A & B turrets, each triple 6". X & Y turrets are aft, if you go further into the site you will see photos from the beam showing all four 6" turrets. I remember being told that the wartime configuration had far more secondary armament guns than after the refit but the new configuration had far more fire power due to modern control systems, the twin 40mm Bofors anti-aircraft guns were radar controlled and scanned the skies following the radar until both locked on to a target then fired immediately automatically following the path of the aircraft. Original armament also included Oerlikon and pom pom A/A guns as well as some 4"cannon and two torpedo tubes, removed in the refit.

I have visited her twice in the Pool of London and enjoyed each time, learning, or remembering more.


HMS Belfast 1943 Weapons | 3DHISTORY.DE
 
:)

Quite some tides ago I spent a week on HMS Belfast in London. Late 70's, I think. My class of RN Apprentices had just about finished our course and some of us were sat about waiting to join HMS Dolphin for Submarine training.

So we were loan drafted as a 'maintenance group' which was principally painting those bofors guns. We were victualled on board and lived in a part of one of the old messdecks.

In the middle of London.....

There were regular functions onboard which we always got invited to. Free booze, lady speakers and on one occasion, Roger decourcy with the bear (not called its polite name) doing a blue ventriliquist act.

Was glad to get back to Gosport for a rest!!
 
capnsensible said:
:)

Quite some tides ago I spent a week on HMS Belfast in London. Late 70's, I think. My class of RN Apprentices had just about finished our course and some of us were sat about waiting to join HMS Dolphin for Submarine training.

So we were loan drafted as a 'maintenance group' which was principally painting those bofors guns. We were victualled on board and lived in a part of one of the old messdecks.

In the middle of London.....

There were regular functions onboard which we always got invited to. Free booze, lady speakers and on one occasion, Roger decourcy with the bear (not called its polite name) doing a blue ventriliquist act.

Was glad to get back to Gosport for a rest!!
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I've only been to the Belfast once, with our then maybe seven-yr-old son. Apart from the cathedral-like engine room, my main memory is of an ex-naval attendant who was as merry as a newt at only 3pm. I had thought that the guns were aimed at South Mimms, but obviously I was mistaken.
 
Gun aiming reminds me of visiting the Aurora in St. Petersburg when my 6'00" tall, but very attractive guard - sorry guide - asked me if I could see where her forward guns were aiming, off the port bow, she pointed out a building in line with them. "That is the old KGB Headquarters she said!"
 
On the other side of the North Sea, at the receiving end of the 12" built up main guns ... I went through both the Naval Memorial and U995 at Laboe. It was quite a sobering experience to think of the collective loss of ships and people in World Wars. Submariners of any breed must be a special race. Cramped, primitive machines, no privacy, only the Captain or another officer would ever see the opposing ships trying to sink you. No thanks.
The memorial was built after WW1, and has contributions from all the naval forces involved. The view from the top over the Kielerfjord is superb and worth the considerable climb.
 
johnalison said:
I was told by an ex-navy SC member that an American warship managed to sink a Japanese vessel at the end of the war at a range of 30,000yds but I can find no mention of this. Most sources seems to suggest that the longest hit from a naval vessel is a tie between the Scharnhorst and Warspite at 26,000ish yards, which is impressive enough.
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This article 16"/50 caliber Mark 7 gun - Wikipedia on the main armament of the Iowa class battleships, includes the following:

‘Off of Truk Atoll on 16 February 1944, Iowa and New Jersey engaged the Japanese destroyer Nowaki at a range of 35,700 yards (32.6 km) and straddled her, setting the record for the longest-ranged straddle in history. Some reports indicated the near misses caused splinter damage and casualties to the crew. The Nowaki was able to escape due to the range and her speed. The action against the Nowaki was part of Operation Hailstone. This was the only known surface engagement that Iowa class battleships engaged in.’

Perhaps your interlocutor was thinking of that action, but was mistaken about the sinking. Anyway, a remarkable distance.
 
(I probably deserve a charge of nerdishness for this - in my defence I have a teenage son who is indeed very nerdy about such things) :)

eddystone said:
Going back to the original posting I’m surprised 12” naval guns were being built at the time of the film. 13.5” became the standard a few iterations after Dreadnought in 1906 and 15” by WW1
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I agree. At the date of the film, the RN had no ships with 12’’ guns.

Furthermore, the 12’’ naval gun was not built by Armstrong’s; it was built by Vickers.

BL 12-inch Mk X naval gun - Wikipedia

Then I remembered that the Gunshed at Levington, home of EYE Ltd...

Gun Shed at Levington (C) Adrian S Pye

... was built to house a twelve inch gun in WW2, but that turned out to be a howitzer, which had indeed been built by Armstrongs at their Elswick plant:

BL 12-inch railway howitzer - Wikipedia

Then I found it - but the Armstrong 12’’ naval gun was from an earlier era. It was the main armament of the Impérial Japanese Navy at the Battle of Tsu-Shima!

Armstrong Whitworth 12-inch 40-calibre naval gun - Wikipedia

So the date of the film must be wrong.
 
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Hydrozoan said:
This article 16"/50 caliber Mark 7 gun - Wikipedia on the main armament of the Iowa class battleships, includes the following:

‘Off of Truk Atoll on 16 February 1944, Iowa and New Jersey engaged the Japanese destroyer Nowaki at a range of 35,700 yards (32.6 km) and straddled her, setting the record for the longest-ranged straddle in history. Some reports indicated the near misses caused splinter damage and casualties to the crew. The Nowaki was able to escape due to the range and her speed. The action against the Nowaki was part of Operation Hailstone. This was the only known surface engagement that Iowa class battleships engaged in.’

Perhaps your interlocutor was thinking of that action, but was mistaken about the sinking. Anyway, a remarkable distance.
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That is probably the action my friend was referring to. The discussions I had been looking at confined themselves to actual hits, which accounts for the difference. Either my friend was mistaken in thinking that a sinking was involved or I didn't do him justice in misquoting him, but I think the former.
 
pagoda said:
On the other side of the North Sea, at the receiving end of the 12" built up main guns ... I went through both the Naval Memorial and U995 at Laboe. It was quite a sobering experience to think of the collective loss of ships and people in World Wars. Submariners of any breed must be a special race. Cramped, primitive machines, no privacy, only the Captain or another officer would ever see the opposing ships trying to sink you. No thanks.
The memorial was built after WW1, and has contributions from all the naval forces involved. The view from the top over the Kielerfjord is superb and worth the considerable climb.
Click to expand...
Your photo seems to have disappeared but I saw it earlier. That's an impressive view. Unfortunately, when I last went there I didn't have any money in my pocket and so couldn't go up. For those who don't know it, the tower is vast. The submariners have their own memorial nearby at Moltenort. U995 is interesting, as you say.
83 copy.jpg19 copy.jpg85 copy.jpg
 
johnalison said:
I was told by an ex-navy SC member that an American warship managed to sink a Japanese vessel at the end of the war at a range of 30,000yds but I can find no mention of this. Most sources seems to suggest that the longest hit from a naval vessel is a tie between the Scharnhorst and Warspite at 26,000ish yards, which is impressive enough.
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Think the longest hit was by Warspite on an Italian naval ship in the Med. Don’t think Warspite and Scharnhorst ever tussled - Scharnhorst sunk by Duke of York somewhere off Norway.
 
I am reminded of Spike Milligans wartime books.

He was on his way with his battery of heavy guns to Scicily when Warspite opened up with a barrage, targeting Italian/German shore targets.

" That's not doing Jerry any good " said Milligan to a passing Matelot as the shells roared overhead.

" It wont be doing Warspite any f###### good either " replied the Matelot " It'll 'ave the rivets out of 'er plates If I know anything about it!"

A substantial Naval barrage was obviously not for the faint hearted.
 
rotrax said:
I am reminded of Spike Milligans wartime books.

He was on his way with his battery of heavy guns to Scicily when Warspite opened up with a barrage, targeting Italian/German shore targets.

" That's not doing Jerry any good " said Milligan to a passing Matelot as the shells roared overhead.

" It wont be doing Warspite any f###### good either " replied the Matelot " It'll 'ave the rivets out of 'er plates If I know anything about it!"

A substantial Naval barrage was obviously not for the faint hearted.
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Not uncommon. When Rodney opened up on Bismarck with her 9 16” guns toilet fittings broke away and portholes in the captain’s cabin were shattered!
 
eddystone said:
Think the longest hit was by Warspite on an Italian naval ship in the Med. Don’t think Warspite and Scharnhorst ever tussled - Scharnhorst sunk by Duke of York somewhere off Norway.
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It is funny how you can write something and not realise that someone else will read it entirely differently. I meant to write that Warspite and the Scharnhorst shared the honour of achieving the longest hit, not that this was obtained in a fight between the two.
 
johnalison said:
It is funny how you can write something and not realise that someone else will read it entirely differently. I meant to write that Warspite and the Scharnhorst shared the honour of achieving the longest hit, not that this was obtained in a fight between the two.
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Sorry my bad but if Scharnhorst had 11” guns to Warspite 15” must have had some muzzle velocity to achieve same range.
 
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