Bugel anchors

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So...

a 5kg anchor isn't the same as a 4kg anchor.

Hmm.

Er... am I not the only one not surprised?

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I noticed that too....I wonder if anyone has thought of comparing identical weight anchors?
 
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a 5kg anchor isn't the same as a 4kg anchor.



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and will you be surprised if I tell you that all 4 weel cars are not similars.. ??
 
You can't compare anchors of different weights, there are all sorts of factors apart from design that could explain a difference in performance. Even adjusting the results proportionate to the weights doesn't work. For example, the substrate is usually harder and offers better holding the farther under the seabed you go, so a larger anchor will get more of its fluke into that.

Anyway Alain what are you trying to tell us? The Oceane was a bit of a **** up, so here's Mk II, the Sword? - no wait, Mk III (what was inbetween again?). Which is still by definition not as good as a Spade? Following this logic, when can we expect Spade Mk II?

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Anyway Alain what are you trying to tell us? The Oceane was a bit of a **** up, so here's Mk II, the Sword? - no wait, Mk III (what was inbetween again?). Which is still by definition not as good as a Spade? Following this logic, when can we expect Spade Mk II?

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No, just saying that the Sword is very similar to the Rocna (or let's say, the Rocna, very similar to the Sword /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif)...

except that the Sword is much, much, much cheaper than the Rocna.. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
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No, just saying that the Sword is very similar to the Rocna (or let's say, the Rocna, very similar to the Sword /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif)...

except that the Sword is much, much, much cheaper than the Rocna.. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]Similar to it, as in the recent West Marine / SAIL testing including Oceane & Rocna?

Oh dear Alain. Have you seen it yet?

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And what's this? http://www.spade-anchor.co.uk/O_Prices.htm

Sword 20Kg £195 ex VAT
Rocna 20 is NZ$675, which is approx £240, including sales tax

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Rocna 20 is NZ$675, which is approx £240, including sales tax

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And Shipping costs from New Zealand??
 
My two penny worth. I have had a 12 kg Oceane on my Etap 32i for three years. It requires careful setting [detail available] if to dig in properly every time. But when it is in it is in for good.

My best example was when on a scope of four to one in volcanic sand and max fifty one knots on three windy nights. Deltas etc. went bobbing out to sea but she didn't move a metre.

The Oceane differs from the Sword by having the facility to alter the angle of attack without disconnecting the chain. I have only found this necessary once, in very fluid delta sand.

And the Bugels I have seen are good too.
 
[ QUOTE ]
We have a 30kg Bugel type anchor on our 42' cat, I made it myself last year with a few mods to the basic bugel design.


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I've been thinking about doing something similar, would you mind posting a picture or two and some dimensions?
 
Point taken

Just a point - literally . . .
I have an Oceane and so far as I'm concerned has performed well. But I haven't (had occasion to) tested it in severe conditions.
Be that as it may, one negative thing I have found is that that lovely sharp point not only digs in the sea-bed, it also digs in my bow gel coat just under the bow roller, as the anchor swings around having left the water. I guess other 'sharp' anchors may do the same.
The new Sword looks mighty similar to the Oceane.
Any comments, M. Alain?

PS Love your (hylas) web-site - "S-kargo" - excellent!
 
Re: Point taken

Hi Grehan,

Thanks for your friendly comments about my Web page.. :0)

To be precise concerning this question - Oceane versus Sword..

Oceane has several happy users all over the World , i.e:

“ As to my current Oceane it seems to work well under all conditions and, so far, has done its job impeccably.” Jimmy Cornell - Cruising World magazine..

But Spade had also some negative comments about the shape of the shank, and the way it was setting on the bow roller..

That’s why I went back to the drawing board and draw a new shank.. When testing it, we have been very surprised to see that the holding has nearly been multiplied by two ( see the comparative curves some posts before ..) Therefore, we have also changed the name for “Rock-C” but we have had some problems with another anchor manufacturer, and changed the name again for “Sword”..

To avoid the tip digging in your bow gel coat, try fixing a small croissant shaped fender, under the bow roller.. it should solve the problem..
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[ QUOTE ]
The harder you pulled the harder it gripped. In fact the main problem we had with it was breaking it out in high winds. For our stay in Sardinia we had Mistral winds of 25-40 knots continuously.


[/ QUOTE ] Well, something's wrong with the set-up you're using if it breaks out.

1. What scope were you using (less than 6:1 in those winds is asking for trouble)

2. What steps did you take to reduce the peak stresses on the anchor, due to yawing or pitching or gusts?
 
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We have just completed a windy week in Sardinia using a brand new Bugel anchor. These are the recently developed German design which is especially good at getting a firm hold on the Mediterranean hard floor.

[/ QUOTE ]Hardly recently developed! The original patent is from 1986 /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Has anyone else tried the Bugel anchor?

[/ QUOTE ]SAIL did in their recent testing:
"...test results show it works. The Wasi set quickly on 5:1 scope, held to 3,000 pounds, and dragged before releasing when the load topped 4,000 pounds. Results were similar on 3:1 scope."

Holding was a bit above average, behind SARCA, Delta, Spade, and Rocna.
 
[ QUOTE ]
<span style="color:blue">We have a 30kg Bugel type anchor on our 42' cat, I made it myself last year with a few mods to the basic bugel design.
The blade on ours is bent down the middle to approx 20 deg to give a concave shape like a Spade and I added a 50mm "tail" to the rear of the blade angled down about 30 deg to improve initial set and promote deeper digging in.

Sorry not got any pics handy, I will try and post some when I have. </span>


[/ QUOTE ]

Something like that?? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Bgna.jpg
 
Re: BÜGCNA anchors

For those who are not carefully following the anchor actuality, I’m very pleased to introduce you the Brand New BÜGCNA anchor.( see previous post )

These are the recently developed Lichtenstein design which is especially good at getting a firm hold on the Danube River and the Black sea. These boaters may not be fully aware of the benefits of the newer generation type anchors on the market – which have raised the bar somewhat in expectations of anchoring performance.

The author must confess at this stage to not being the designer of the Bügcna, a new boat anchor design which is receiving an excellent response from the international offshore fleet visiting Lichtenstein, with orders now also coming in from overseas.

Rather than allow this article to deteriorate into an info-mercial for a particular brand, the differences between the older and newer designs will be discussed in general.
Most testing ( and yes, it is accepted that anchors are very difficult to test properly, but there do exist some informative comparisons ) shows a big improvement evident in the new generation, which only reinforces what more and more cruisers are seeing for themselves…….

Bgcna-copie-1.jpg
 
Hi Hylas and GWH,

Your picture is quite close to what I built, the only difference is the "tail" on my design is angled down not up as in your picture. It almost looks like you have copied my design!!!!!!

From some testing I did, the tail angled down seems to encourage the tip to dig in very quickly and to dig deeper in.

I must admit that the testing was far from scientific or extensive, however practical useage of the anchor over last summer was very reassuring with very quick and positive setting and no dragging experienced although winds were never over about 25knts when anchored.

The anchor self stows and self launches from our bow roller and was fairly easy to make. Basically little more than gas cutting, bending the plates, welding and grinding. The blade is laminated from 3 x 6mm thick plates each slightly smaller than the next to give a sloped edge. Since the materials were free to me it actually only cost me about £40.00 for galvanising. If you had to have the steel cut and bent by an engineering shop and then did all the subsequent welding and grinding yourself it should still cost less than about £150.00 for a 30kg anchor.
 
Hi Brendan,

You mentioned you were interested to know how some other anchors performed in the same conditions. I'm replying in good faith and assuming this isn't a 'troll'!

We anchored in sand off Capo de Gata in SE Spain earlier this year for 2 to 3 days in winds pretty constantly in the 30's and 40's knot ranges. The peak was 49 knots on each of 2 of the days.

I'm pleased to say that we held firm with only 5:1 scope on 10mm chain. I would have preferred to have increased scope here wasn't room to let out more. We have pretty high windage and set a riding sail to reduce the tendency to 'tack' around the anchor.

The anchor is a 27kg Spade and the boat is a erm........ Bavaria 47 Ocean. (So, a double whammy).

As we live aboard most of the time confidence in our anchor is more important to us than it used to be. Like the poster we celebrated our anchor's performance and it has given us great confidence in it - to the extent that I transferred my paranoia to the anchor shackle instead!

Several boats dragged and re-anchored over the 2 to 3 days and 3 boats gave up all together and decided to motor off downwind - presumable seeing this as the lesser of 2 evils.

Didn't see whether it was their technique or what their anchors were - mind you most of the time I was busy looking for my keel!

I haven't tried a Bugel but have heard a lot of good reports as I have for other 'modern' anchors and I am not promoting the Spade above anything else. It was just our very good experience on that occasion.

Hope this is of interest,

Cheers,

Bob
 
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