Bugel anchors

[hylass]

[ QUOTE ]
Your picture is quite close to what I built, the only difference is the "tail" on my design is angled down not up as in your picture. It almost looks like you have copied my design!!!!!!


[/ QUOTE ]

Very easy.. just to cut the "tail" up.. and to fold it down..
Is it better like that?? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[crisjones]

Just about perfect that Hylas - amazing what you can do with picture software these days!!!!

Maybe a little more curvature to the edges of the blade - more heart shaped. And the roll bar is welded onto the corners of the balde without the wings beneath. ;-)

As I said, very happy with the price and performance so far !!!!

Chris

 

[gwh]

Thanks very much for the replies guys.

I'm thinking of making an anchor of about 50kg, so I think I'll use something like 25mm or 30mm plate for the fluke, but I'm nervous about bending the shank - this seems to happen on anchor tests now and again. For the shank I was thinking of fabricating something like an I-beam, similar to what's on my 90kg CQR (I frankly don't see how I could bend that with only 5/8" chain /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

Llamedos, what thickness of plate did you use for the shank? Since you're not far from me, is there any chance that I could have a look at your anchor sometime?

 

[hylass]

For a 50 kg anchor, 20 mm thick steel plate will be ok, if possible look for high grade steel.. if you can make a "T" cross section it will be better

The Llamedos's design is interesting and you should have good results with it..

Peaceful anchorages

 

[craigsmith]

Do realize that Hylas's pictures are digitally modified photos of a Rocna... his real motivations for posting them may be guessed at.

In any case one should be careful to avoid infringing our design IP in the EU. It is okay to make copies for personal use but they may not legally be re-sold.

Of course the Buegel design is now in the public domain, but the Buegel consists of only a flat fluke, straight shank, and roll-bar. Be careful not to come too close to our protection if you intend to resell the final product.

 

[hylass]

[ QUOTE ]
<span style="color:blue"> Do realize that Hylas's pictures are digitally modified photos of a Rocna... one should be careful to avoid infringing our design IP in the EU.
</span>

[/ QUOTE ]

/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif...

Hi Craig..

Nothing to see with the ROCNA ( <span style="color:blue"> www.rocna.com </span> - don't forget it!! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif)

On the first drawing, the "Roll bar" belong to the Bruce Patent, the blade to the SPADE anchor ( <span style="color:blue"> www.spade-anchor.com</span> /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif) and the shank is just a straight bar of steel ( like the Bügel one )..

The fact that YOU believe it is digitally modified photo of a Rocna... is just a COÏNCIDENCE .. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

On the second drawing, which is a digitally modified photo of a the first one... the back part is turned down.. ( very different from the Rocna!)

None of these designs, which are VERY different from the Rocna one, will infringing their design IP and you can peacefully make them..

As the Rocna itself is copying designs of long term existing anchors ( the shank of the Delta, the roll bar of the Bügel and the blade of the Spade.. )they will have a lot of hard job fighting to defend their design "IP" /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[gwh]

[ QUOTE ]
Do realize that Hylas's pictures are digitally modified photos of a Rocna...


[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't care what they are modified photos of. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]

In any case one should be careful to avoid infringing our design IP in the EU. It is okay to make copies for personal use but they may not legally be re-sold.


[/ QUOTE ]

A little touchy, are we?

I understand the IP issues. I have no intention of joining the ranks of anchor sellers and re-sellers, I just want to make an anchor for my boat. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I intend to use all-chain rode most of the time. Do you give any advice about the use of all-chain rode on your anchors?

 

[gwh]

[ QUOTE ]
For a 50 kg anchor, 20 mm thick steel plate will be ok, if possible look for high grade steel..


[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't be able to fabricate anything in high-tensile material, I only weld mild steel. I'm not sure what would be the effects of galvanizing on anything other than mild steel anyway.

[ QUOTE ]

..if you can make a "T" cross section it will be better


[/ QUOTE ]

Are you thinking of the ease with which the shank will bury into the ground? That's occurred to me too. I was wondering about a triangular (er, can I say 'delta' here?) cross-section. Anything like that is very easy to fabricate.

[ QUOTE ]

The Llamedos's design is interesting and you should have good results with it..


[/ QUOTE ]

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]

Peaceful anchorages.


[/ QUOTE ]

U2. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[craigsmith]

[ QUOTE ]
A little touchy, are we?

[/ QUOTE ]I'm just annoyed at Hylas. He has no intent to assist with your project, he hasn't given you very useful advice (or has omitted what would be). I promise you 90% of his motive here is to annoy me. I suppose it's worked.

[ QUOTE ]
I understand the IP issues. I have no intention of joining the ranks of anchor sellers and re-sellers, I just want to make an anchor for my boat. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]That's okay.

[ QUOTE ]
I intend to use all-chain rode most of the time. Do you give any advice about the use of all-chain rode on your anchors?

[/ QUOTE ]Nothing specific to the Rocna, but we encourage the use of all-chain if possible, or as much as possible. You might like to take a look at our User's Guide, which is on our website under "printable information". It covers a range of general topics such as chain.

 

[craigsmith]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks very much for the replies guys.

I'm thinking of making an anchor of about 50kg, so I think I'll use something like 25mm or 30mm plate for the fluke, but I'm nervous about bending the shank - this seems to happen on anchor tests now and again. For the shank I was thinking of fabricating something like an I-beam, similar to what's on my 90kg CQR (I frankly don't see how I could bend that with only 5/8" chain /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

Llamedos, what thickness of plate did you use for the shank? Since you're not far from me, is there any chance that I could have a look at your anchor sometime?

[/ QUOTE ]The formula for a bending torque is:

0.9*(yield stress)*((breadth*depth^2)/4)
where breadth would be the height of your shank and depth the thickness of the plate.

If you divide that torque by the lever arm (shank length) you get a simple idea of the force that will bend the shank sideways (worst case scenario). Divide that figure by 9.8 and you have equivalent weight force.

Our 55 has a 20mm high tensile steel fluke with a shank height of over 150mm.

 

[craigsmith]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you thinking of the ease with which the shank will bury into the ground? That's occurred to me too. I was wondering about a triangular (er, can I say 'delta' here?) cross-section. Anything like that is very easy to fabricate.

[/ QUOTE ]You can say Delta but the term according to the Spade patent is "trapezoidal cross section" /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

For hard sand, avoid using one, but an I-beam would be fine for soft stuff.

 

[gwh]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I intend to use all-chain rode most of the time. Do you give any advice about the use of all-chain rode on your anchors?

[/ QUOTE ] Nothing specific to the Rocna, but we encourage the use of all-chain if possible, or as much as possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's great. I have two all chain rodes (1/2" and 5/8") running over two gypsies on a 2 ton horizontal axis hydraulic windlass, so it's much easier for me to use all chain. But I was a bit bothered about the comments I saw in the section "SHOCK LOADS" here:

http://www.bluewatersupplies.com/new_gen_anchors.htm

[ QUOTE ]
You might like to take a look at our User's Guide, which is on our website under "printable information". It covers a range of general topics such as chain.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, that's very helpful. I'll have a good look at it. I don't think I'll ever tire of reading about ground tackle. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]

The formula for a bending torque is [snip]
Our 55 has a 20mm high tensile steel fluke with a shank height of over 150mm.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks again, that's all extremely useful. I can handle the maths, so with the information you've given me I can get a much better feel for what's needed. You're a star.

 

[jimbaerselman]

[ QUOTE ]
I intend to use all-chain rode most of the time. Do you give any advice about the use of all-chain rode on your anchors?

[/ QUOTE ] Rocna recommend an all chain rode.

The lesson to learn from the website you quote is that, even if you have an all chain rode, you must attach 10m or more of nylon snubber at the upper end to minimise any shock loads. Arguably, that's not an all chain rode, but perhaps that's me being pedantic.

 

[crisjones]

Hi GWH,

I think I made the shank from 16mm steel on one anchor and 20mm thick on a second one that has a removable shank for easy storage. I am happy that there is very little chance of bending the shank - something else will break first!!!!

You are more than welcome to have a look at the anchors when you are nearby, send me a PM if you are interested.

Cheers, Chris

 

[hylass]

[ QUOTE ]
<span style="color:blue"> I'm just annoyed at Hylas. He has no intent to assist with your project, he hasn't given you very useful advice (or has omitted what would be). I promise you 90% of his motive here is to annoy me. I suppose it's worked.</span>

[/ QUOTE ]

Well when answering GWH post, I gave the URL of the Bügel web page ( <span style="color:blue"> http://www.swisstech-america.com/anchor/anchorinfo_only.html </span> ) it is obvious that it was not to assist you but only to annoy Craig! ( <span style="color:red"> are you making some complexes Craig </span> ??)
When I gave my opinion on the thickness of the shank .. it was obviously also to annoy Craig!!!

[ QUOTE ]
<span style="color:blue"> You can say Delta but the term according to the Spade patent is "trapezoidal cross section" </span>

[/ QUOTE ]

When GWH refer about shank shape ( er, can I say 'delta' here?) he is not talking about the anchor brand D elta but about a triangular shape

[ QUOTE ]
<span style="color:blue"> Rocna recommend an all chain rode.

The lesson to learn from the website you quote is that, even if you have an all chain rode, you must attach 10m or more of nylon snubber at the upper end to minimise any shock loads. Arguably, that's not an all chain rode, but perhaps that's me being pedantic. </span>

[/ QUOTE ]
Once more, this is not to annoy Craig ROCNA but I am 100% against an all chain rode, unless you are introducing any kind of shock absorption , you must at least attach 10m or more of nylon snubber at the upper end to minimise any shock loads